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Oral History Interview with Margaret Gómez, 1998


Interviewee: Margaret Gómez
Interviewer: José Angel Gutiérrez, Ph.D., J.D.
Transcribers: Karen McGee and José Angel Gutiérrez Celia Lugo
Date of Interview: June 13, 1998

Location of Interview: Austin, Texas
Number of Transcript Pages: 61
Cite this interview as Oral History Interview with Margaret Gómez, 1998, by José Angel Gutiérrez. CMAS No. 95


Margaret Gómez

Dr. Gutiérrez: This is June 13th, 1998. We are interviewing Margaret Gomez. We are in Austin, Texas. She is now a county commissioner in Travis County. And, you've executed that deed of gift form and you understand what this is about and you are willing to do this?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. I've outlined the areas we are going to cover in this ethnographic interview.
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And you asked to start with genealogy. So, why don't you tell us who Margaret Gomezis, family and all of that?
Commissioner Gómez: OK. I'm Margaret Gomez. My maiden name is Juarez, Margarita Juarez Gomez. I was born in, in Comal County in Kingsbury, Texas which is right outside of San Marcos. My parents worked on the farm and they had come here from San Marcos, Hayes County. And, and they had grown up on, on the farms, both my mother and father and their families. Their families knew each other because they worked on the farms around Fentress, Comal County, and Hayes County. When I was born my father had always said that he, in his youth, he liked education. And he was, had always wanted to go to Chicago to pursue an education in how to fix cars and, and he wrote them somehow, came in touch with them, their, their technology schools, and he wanted, was very much interested. His father, however, felt that he needed him here in, in, at home so that he could help with the work of the family. There were thirteen brothers and sisters in their family and his father needed my dad to work in the fields to help support the family. It was a real disappointment to my father to not be able to go to Chicago and, and he has recounted the story to me many times. He cried because he asked his father's permission to go to Chicago to study. And his father said, "Well you know, you, you can go if you

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want, but if you go, it will be against my will." And so Dad made the decision to stay home. But he never forgot that he wanted to pursue other educational opportunities. Somehow he, he just felt education was important. So when I was born June 8th, 1944, he made the decision that he was going to move to the big city close by which was Austin. And the whole idea was that he wanted his children to have, to be in the city where there were schools that we could attend and so that was his long range goal in my estimation. And, and I've never ceased to, to be amazed by the wisdom of this person who had no more than the first grade education. My mother was a little luckier. She had three years of education and so they moved to Austin.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Do you remember what year that was?
Commissioner Gómez: That was like 1944. I was three months old and so it must have been like September 1944 when they moved to Austin and they arrived here on Jewel Street. They found a little house to rent from the Coopers and who lived on South, at South Third and, and Jewel Street. And they rented for awhile. He went to work for a, an automobile dealership. He washed cars, he fixed, learned how to fix cars, and was curious enough to find out a little bit more about how to fix cars so he could get into that field. As time went on, I grew up. I, I had three brothers were born on Jewel, in Austin, in Jewel, on Jewel Street and my father finally decided to build a little house. He had saved enough money to build a house at 702 Jewel.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Were you the first born?
Commissioner Gómez: I was the first, no I was the first to survive. Mother had lost three children prior to, to me. And, so I was the first to survive. And so there I am the oldest and then there, I have three brothers who are younger.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did we get names? It's not a test, but did we get names?

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Commissioner Gómez: No. It's Gilbert, Gilbert is next to me, four years younger. Manuel is four years younger than Gilbert, and Johnny is two years younger than Manuel. And, so he built his house at Jewel and that's where we grew up. We went to school at Becker, Homar, and Travis High School.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did, did you fill out enough about the grandparents on, on either side?
Commissioner Gómez: A little bit. Not, not as much. I guess my, my dad's parents came from Mexico in 1910 when the revolution was, was in progress. And they were fleeing that whole situation and they came and they landed in Hayes County, Comal County, Centress, around Centres, and San Marcos and San Antonio. My mother's family came from Piedras Negras and her family in Los Flores, their parents tambien (also) came, came to fleeing the revolution and they arrived in sort of the same area. So, my mother and father's families knew each other.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Do you know their names; the grandparent's names?
Commissioner Gómez: Flores and Juarez.
Dr. Gutiérrez: But no first names?
Commissioner Gómez: Severania and Manuel Juarez are my parent, my father's grandparents. And so, so Manuel is a name that has carried on. And my mother's parents were Carolina and Jesus Flores. Came from Piedras Negras .
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Who was Severania?
Commissioner Gómez: Severania was my,
Dr. Gutiérrez: Severania. I got it. I got it.
Commissioner Gómez: ... My mother's mother.
Dr. Gutiérrez: I got it. I thought it was Severania. I was going to say well. OK.
Commissioner Gómez: Severania. And, so they, they grew up in and around Comal and, and Hayes Counties. So the families knew each other and my parents knew each other when they were little. And, so as they grew up, they, they, got married and then they moved to Travis County.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. So, early childhood. But if there's other things you want to mention about your family, feel free to bring it in at any time.

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Commissioner Gómez: OK.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, we didn't finish your family; your, your own personal relationships.
Commissioner Gómez: My, my, my brothers and I, of course, you know, we're, we're very close. I can remember us, you know, during the times that we played. Being the only girl I don't know that I ever played with dolls. I played with the boys. And then across the street from us were the Alvarez family and there was six boys in that family. And, so my, my kind of activity was cowboys and Indians and wrestling and, and that kind of stuff. So I, I don't ever remember any, any dolls, per se. And, but it was just a, a lot of activity going down to the, the creek, walking to school, you know, I had to do, I mean, we did have to do our homework. One of the things because education was so important to my father. It was important that we did our homework before we went out and played. I mean, they really watched us very closely. We didn't have permission to go up the street too far. We went a little bit, but then, you know, we, I mean, we had to be home when my father came home. We had to be home.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Do, do you have children?
Commissioner Gómez: I have one child.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: Thirty two years old. And she's working, independent, you know, and, and school and work and all that kind of thing.
Dr. Gutiérrez: What's her name?
Commissioner Gómez: Maria Dolores Gomez.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Do you want to talk about that relationship?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes. It's a very good relationship. I'm, I'm very proud of her. I think during the times that, that she was... When I got married, it didn't last very long. I came home and, and she was with me. We came back to my family's home where she grew up. And, and then she went to

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school and did all the things. I was involved. I began getting involved I think about 1969 in some political races. Buddy Ruiz was running for city council. And I think it was the, probably one of the very first times that I remember hearing what city council was about. But, when my younger days, when we went to the las jamaicas (church fiesta) at San Jose Church, Emma Long used to be on the city council. And she would come to the church to visit and I, maybe that was the first glimpse that I got about what a city council person did or city council was. I mean, it was just kind of one of those foreign things out here. So when Buddy decided to run then it kind of, you know, came, you know, together, jelled a little bit more for me as to what city council was. And I started working just doing answering the phone, you know, little, the little... The first things that you start doing when you come into a campaign. The mailers, addressing envelopes, you know, just little menial tasks that all come together in a campaign. But, but I think my father too, he was real, real interested in the race for president in 1960. The John Kennedy's race. And, I was in high school. And I remember that we saw the, the debate on TV. And that was very decisive in, in my, in my dad's eyes because I think he, he was very much aware of what had happened in the revolution. Why his parents had to come to, to this country in the middle of the night. And he remembered their, their, their poverty. They rode the train, I think, into this country and they didn't have any food. And, he recalls the times that, you know, they had to, you know, they were little, they were very... He was like maybe a year old and his older brother maybe two years old. And they didn't have any food. And, so he said they would, they would ask people on the train for food. And, of course, being children they would give them some money. So, it was just a kind of a real bad situation. And, so his memories of it are very vivid. And, and the times he's recalled it, as you can tell, it just kind of gives

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you the, you know, a real, real sense of what it must have been like, you know, anytime you recall it. So, I think he had that kind of sense of the injustices that, that happened. And, and then he talked about when they were in Comal County and other areas, people who came across. How in-between Comal and the border that there were a lot of stories on the, in the ranchitos (small ranches) about people being killed. And, so the, the sense that he leaves with me is that who knows how many Mexicanos (Mexicans)there are who have lost their lives in-between Comal County or Hayes County and the border. And then, you know, who's to say how many more there are beyond that? But...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Killed at the hands of whom?
Commissioner Gómez: Killed at the hands of people they worked for. Killed at the hands of people who maybe the law enforcement who found them along the streets. But the sense that I get, is people they worked for. He tells of times that he knows of people who have worked for somebody and in order, and so that they wouldn't have to pay them they would kill them. And, and so those, and, and those are stories that just kind of make the rounds, I think, among people wherever they worked. And I can imagine in the small ranchitos (ranches) that probably happened a lot. But he had, he has very vivid stories about that. And so, so his sense of, of justice and or injustice, whatever happened is, is, is there. And, so his interest has been there, so when John Kennedy came along, I think it, it captured his imagination just like he captured everybody else's. And the sense of, of wanting to straighten out some, some things that had happened in the past. And, and how people were, were perhaps, or some hope that people would be treated a lot better than they were in the past and certainly in his time. He, he doesn't have very good memories of what happened in that time. So, all of these experiences with him, I think, he, my father has played a major role in my life and I, I imagine in my brothers'. But as a, as a

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woman, he's played just an extremely major role in the direction that I took. The education, the, you know, you can wash dishes later. I want you to do your homework first. All those things. And so it, I, I got the feeling that it wasn't so important for me to know how to, how to cook, how to keep a house well, you know, tend it, how to wash dishes, well, how, you know, all those kinds of things. It was: Do your homework because I don't want you to fall into the things that we had, we had to go through in our lives. I want you to, you know, get a good start. I want you to get a good job. I want you to do these things for, for the future.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Was there any mention of college?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes. It was you go as far as you want to go. I am there to support you. And, and so I, the first goal obviously was to finish high school.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And you did?
Commissioner Gómez: And I did.
Dr. Gutiérrez: When was that?
Commissioner Gómez: That was in 1962 at Travis High School.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Any significant accomplishments or disappointments in your high school years; a favorite teacher, bad teachers; were you the prom queen; did you play volleyball?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, I, I played a lot of volleyball and it was a lot of fun in junior high through high school. And I was part of a, a, I was a member of a team that we were champions, I think, from the seventh grade until the twelfth grade. And, and we, it was a, our class just went together in those six years and we played volleyball and were always champions. And it, I didn't have the height to do any kind of, you know, the, the...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Dunking?
Commissioner Gómez: ...the dunking type of thing, but I...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well no, it's called a spike now.
Commissioner Gómez: The spiking?

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Yeah.
Commissioner Gómez: But I could serve well. I got it over the net. And that was my role, you know. And, so, so I just kind of stepped aside for everybody else to do the spiking. But, then, when I was in, in, in elementary I, I have very good memories of my first grade teacher. Very, was very open, was very, was kind and she came to the house to visit my parents to, to talk about, you know, how I was doing. And she said I was doing great.
Dr. Gutiérrez: These were all Anglo teachers?
Commissioner Gómez: These were Anglo teachers, yes. And, and but I do remember very distinctly that the language was, was limited. I knew a lot of, I knew some English because I, I played with the kids in the neighborhood. And, but I didn't know what the word picnic was. And I'll never forget that. And it was, the assignment was draw a picnic. I drew a horse, you know. And, then she, and I remember her saying, "That's not a picnic. Go ask the other kids what a picnic is." Well I mean you know, we didn't, we didn't do picnics at my house, in our family. I mean...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Were you all ever migrants?
Commissioner Gómez: We, we migrated, I guess, the last time I was like four years old.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, that was a picnic.
Commissioner Gómez: It was, I guess.
Dr. Gutiérrez: When you take the noon break and you all sat under the tree and break out a taco. That's the picnic.
Commissioner Gómez: That's true. I never would have called it picnic.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Right.
Commissioner Gómez: And my parents didn't call it a picnic. Maybe, I don't know what they called it.
Dr. Gutiérrez: The fun was missing.

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Commissioner Gómez: I remember. And so, so I got the idea from seeing the other, what the other kids had drawn. You know, that it was, you know, had a blanket, you know, on the ground and food and stuff. Oh, OK. So, but it, but it kind of also, I've never forgotten that because even today I think, you know, in spite of how much English we speak, I don't know that we, you know... Unless you, you throw yourself into really doing a lot of, you know, really good work in that field, you, I don't know that we really ever get a real good command of the, of the language. At least that's my feelings sometimes. You know, I'm not sure that I understand what exactly you, you were saying. It's, it's, it's cultural, it's, it's language, it's, you know, experience that all kind of makes it possible to, to have it become fully understandable. And, but that one was, was the one that stuck in my mind. But I, I did really well. I got promoted throughout. I had a very good experience in school.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Church stuff? First date, first dance, first kiss.
Commissioner Gómez: Oh gosh. Well, I
Dr. Gutiérrez: Go to the movies? Did you have a car?
Commissioner Gómez: No. I didn't, I never had a car. And I had to ride the bus. But I did play the violin in, in the sixth grade and I played the violin from sixth through twelfth grades.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, you are a good violin player?
Commissioner Gómez: I, I was a very good violin player.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you give it up?
Commissioner Gómez: I gave it up when I graduated from high school. And, and I think one of the reasons was that I wasn't sure that that was going to make me any money, you know. And, and, and as it turns out, you know, most of the arts and, and music, music things, you know, kind of, it takes a long time and a lot of dedication, a lot of commitment, and yet, people, you know, we have starving artists and things like that. And,

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so when I quit, I went to, to business college. And I finished and then I started my career with the state government. And in 1963. And I've worked with the state government about ten years and then I've been with the county government twenty five years.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Now, now who did you marry?
Commissioner Gómez: I married David Gomez from Bryan, Texas.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: And, and then after we got divorced, he stayed over there. And I came back home.
Dr. Gutiérrez: When did you get divorced?
Commissioner Gómez: In 1968.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And you were married how long?
Commissioner Gómez: I was married about three months.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Oh wow.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. It was not...
Dr. Gutiérrez: So you married in `68 and divorced in `68?
Commissioner Gómez: I married in, in `65. I, I, we just stayed married about three months. I came home and it took a while to get the divorce. You know, `68.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. One child?
Commissioner Gómez: One child.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Do you want to leave this, this early childhood and the family stuff and go onto the political...
Commissioner Gómez: Well,
Dr. Gutiérrez: ...career?
Commissioner Gómez: ...that, that would be fine. The only other thing I wanted to add was about my daughter because of the experiences I had. All the, the involvement I had in campaigns. I think she, very young, six years old, she figured out, you know, what it took, you know. She's such a, so and so you know, ran and, and lost, you know, and then somebody else would, would run and say the same thing happened to that person

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that happened to so and, so and yeah. They lost, you know, but you know, we're going to try again. And so, I mean, that has been there. But I'm, I'm very proud of, of the fact that I think she's very progressive in her thoughts. And, and I like to talk to her, to get her slant on, on things and, and it's usually a very good, a very, very good advice. And you know, a real good balance for me. And, and, and I'm kind of proud to think that, you know, I had a lot in teaching her and bringing her along and because we had close communications with each other.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you mention when you were born?
Commissioner Gómez: I was born in 1944. June the 8th, 1944. Yeah.
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. Let me ask you, as, as you start telling me about Buddy Ruiz and, and, and then, the other things you got involved with, did you ever hear or participate with PASO or the Economy Furniture Strike here or the Valley Farm Workers Strike or the Crystal City revolt in 1963?
Commissioner Gómez: I remember hearing about Crystal City in 1963. And I think that was about the time that I had graduated from high school in `62. And then, I can't recall how it was that I heard about Crystal City exactly. But I did hear about the Valley, the farm workers when they marched up to try to meet with Connally. And my dad marched in that with them. He drove down to, I can't remember where it was, New Braunfels and then marched on into town with them. And, and then the Economy Furniture Strike came up about in 1969 and that was about the time that I was getting involved with the, with Buddy's city council race. And then some students from the university got involved with us with the Economy Furniture Strike. And I, I participated in a lot of those marches helping with fund raisers. And, and some of those people are still around and, and we still run into each other. Dolores Castro, Frank Ramirez, Genaro Hernandez, you know. And, and so, all these

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people are still. Buddy Ruiz, Dan Ruiz, and, you know, some. I still recall and see a lot of those people.
Dr. Gutiérrez: There was some youth groups that got formed about that time here...
Commissioner Gómez: MASO.
Dr. Gutiérrez: ...in Austin and UT campus, MASO and off campus, MECHA and MAYO.
Commissioner Gómez: Uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Were you involved with any of that?
Commissioner Gómez: I was probably on the fringes of it because I was not going to the University of Texas, but I was involved in the community. And there were some, there was some contact with some of them, with some of those students. Amalia Rodriguez Mendoza was, was a student there. And, so there were some conversations. Marta Cotera and Juan, if I remember, were around about that time and, and still around. So there, those conversations were, were there. I think, I remember MAYO, about the conversations about them. And, so I was aware of what they. were doing and then I was working with the Texas Office of Economic Develop, Economic Opportunity. And there were, you know, we always, some of the organizers with that group were in touch with some of these activities that were going on. And, then there was a march in Del Rio that I remember as well. And, and, and some of the people who were involved. And, so I was, I was, I was kind of on the .. fringe, but I was in communication with people who were involved. And, so I was aware of what was going on and that there was some, you know, movements going, you know, movements going on.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And your child was about a year old or so?
Commissioner Gómez: She was about, well, she was born in `66, so this was a little prior to her. Before I got married and so...

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, go with any direction you want because I don't know how to ask you questions between economy Furniture and, and these early things, the Del Rio march and so...
Commissioner Gómez: OK. OK.
Dr. Gutiérrez: ...take us through where you are now. You are a ...
Commissioner Gómez: OK.
Dr. Gutiérrez: ...county commissioner now.
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Which is interesting because... Well, you'll tell us how you got there.
Commissioner Gómez: Sure.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So...
Commissioner Gómez: I think all of the, those experiences, Del Rio, you know, Crystal City. And, and then I remember a, a convention here at the auditorium. The, the...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Raza Youth.
Commissioner Gómez: Raza Unida. Right?
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: And, and I remember attending that conference and I think the, the identification that we got from, from being there and, and listening to the issues. I mean, there were all kind of, you know, they were really on, on target. And then I remember having the conversation with my dad afterwards, you know. What have you been doing? Well, this is where I've been and these are the issues; these are some of the things that are going on.. And he would, you know, he lent a lot of confirmation to it, you know. That's right. That has been going on. And, and that's right, you know. Something needs to be done. And, and then he would recount some of the stories, some of his experiences that he had. So, and so to me it was, there was some, a lot of confirmation from, from him and, and I think that, that, that really made me aware much more, you know. His experiences and

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then what was going on today, you know, to be really aware of, of what, where we needed to, to be headed and to be doing. So I, I still remained very much involved in this community after, after that on other campaigns of Mexicanos (Mexicans) who were running for the various policy making bodies in the city, city council, commissioner's court, school board, and everything else. And, then each one of those, I, my participation was, you know, increased. I graduated from answering the phone and licking the envelopes to organizing, to getting out the vote, to registering voters, to walking this whole precinct, you know. And then also being in touch with people at the university, Anglo students who then grew up. They stayed here in jobs with state agencies. And, then the, you know, so our coalition became a little bit larger. So, I, I spent a lot of time, just an awful lot of time, it seems like, after hours, you know, at various meetings and being involved in various issues. From, some that were particular to our community and, and in East Austin, some that were city wide like the, the nuclear power plant issue, and some that were county wide. Redistricting and then the, the, the legislative races. I mean, just, just the whole thing almost. So, I, I think I spent from 1969 till 1980 doing those kinds of activities. And in `81, in 1980 the constable in Precinct 4 talked about retiring and he was a fourteen year incumbent. And, so I, I, it just occurred to me one day that, you know, having worked for Richard Moya as commissioner and we, for six years or seven and a half years, we reviewed all of those projects. And I, you know, went and looked at them. And, so it occurred to me one day, I can do this job. And so I, I ran some feelers in the community to see if I had support and, and Anglos, Mexican-Americans, Blacks said, "Yeah, OK. Try it."
Dr. Gutiérrez: The issue of being a woman didn't come up?

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Commissioner Gómez: It didn't come up at all. And I said I, and they said, "Do you really think you can do the job?" "I know I can do the job." And so I, I took a leave of absence. I jumped into the campaign and when the, when this man, Herbert Benner, heard that I was getting into the race, he got back in. And he said that the, this job was no job for a woman and that was not....
Dr. Gutiérrez: So it came up as an issue from the opposition...
Commissioner Gómez: He brought it.
Dr. Gutiérrez: ...but, but not your supporters.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How do you spell his last name?
Commissioner Gómez: B-E-N N-E-R
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. .
Commissioner Gómez: And...
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, what was that campaign like? Here you are a seasoned pro, how did you whip him?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, I, I went, I did all those things that I had done for other people. You know I mean I had to get organized volunteers and I knew I had to walk precincts. And I had, needed to go out there and talked to people. And, of course, it was, I was no stranger to them. They had seen me walk for everybody else and, and campaign for everybody else. And so I, I, it didn't take a whole lot of money. It was a precinct race.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How much money did you spend?
Commissioner Gómez: I think I spent about eight thousand dollars.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How did you raise it?
Commissioner Gómez: Went to, to folks and, and asked them for money. And, and then we had the, you know, I can't even remember now what kind of fund raisers we had, but I raised eight thousand dollars and I, I won. Mainly because he handed the, the race to me by saying to this

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community, this is no job for a woman, you know. And, so it really, it, it, I think he won the race for me.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How bad did you beat him?
Commissioner Gómez: Uh, it was fifty five, forty five.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Not bad at all.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. Which was...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Almost landslide.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah, they called it a landslide.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Now, you were both Democrats, so you won in the primary and had no opposition in November?
Commissioner Gómez: Had no, no Republican opposition.
Dr. Gutiérrez: But did you still campaign in November and raise more money?
Commissioner Gómez: I still campaigned, but I, I was able to go back on the county payroll, went back to work for Moya until January when I took over the office. And I stayed there thirteen years and in 1993, I resigned to run and I, because I think I believed I was ready to take on more responsibility and, and I felt that I could win and, you know, it wasn't a guarantee. I took a shot.
Dr. Gutiérrez: This was the Justice of the Peace position?
Commissioner Gómez: It was a constable, I was a constable for thirteen years and then I resigned in `93 to run for commissioner.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Oh, where did I get this Justice of the Peace? I guess it was constable.
Commissioner Gómez: I don't know what, it was constable.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. OK. OK.
Commissioner Gómez: I was a constable, yeah.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, before you get to commissioner, tell me a little bit about what it was like to be the, I guess you were the first woman constable in Travis County?
Commissioner Gómez: I was the first woman. Uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Certainly the first Mexican-American?

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Commissioner Gómez: Uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: There was no man before who ever won?
Commissioner Gómez: Uh, no, no Hispanic, no Mexican-American men.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Right. So, you were both the first woman and the...
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: first Mexican?
Commissioner Gómez: Now other Mexican-American men had run, but they had not won
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: ...against this man. And then, when, that's why when he decided to, to retire, I thought well, this is my chance, you know. And nobody else, everybody else has tried it and they haven't won, so I am going to try it. And but I think it, it was, it came down to putting the coalition together for, for the race and, and even though I supported those other, the Mexican-American men running for constable, we couldn't quite get there. And, and so I think it was the Anglo community, we couldn't quite get there. And, and because we would always get out voted anyway even if Mexican-American, every Mexican-American voted. And every African-American voted, we'd get out, we can get out voted and, and so it was a, it was a question of putting this coalition together. And I had worked, you know, since `69 through `80 on, on this coalition. I was part of the coalition.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And this is the same precinct the commissioner won and, and the constable won in the same one?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes. Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Can you tell me a little bit about the demographics or the, the mix? Who, who was is in this commissioner precinct and where is it geographically in the county?
Commissioner Gómez: OK. The, on the north is East Seventh because that's the line that separates the African-Americans from Mexican-Americans. It goes into downtown around the courthouse and then it comes down to

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Town Lake along Shoal Creek and then it, it follows the railroad tracks to, to south. It goes over to, to Lamar a little bit and then it comes, it goes all the way to Menchaca and then south of Menchaca to, to Slaughter Lane. It comes east to I-35 and then south on I-35 to Hayes County. Over on, on the east side, it's Seventh Street and then along the Colorado River on the County to Bastrop County. It's a large area. And, and then the demographics are thirty five percent Mexican-American, twelve percent African-American, and the rest are Anglos.
Dr. Gutiérrez: That's today?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes, today.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And before, of course, there was more Anglos, less Mexican?
Commissioner Gómez: More Anglo, uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: About the same in terms of Blacks?
Commissioner Gómez: Probably twenty five percent His... Mexican-American at one time, ten or eight percent African-American. So those numbers have grown a little bit and the Anglo population has, has diminished some, a little bit, but certainly not a minority. And, and so the, that's how I won. I, I've just relied on, on, you know, all the work that I think I've invested.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you do voter registration on behalf of yourself and did you have an early vote campaign...
Commissioner Gómez: Yes, yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: ... or absentee voting as it was called?
Commissioner Gómez: It, we had the early voting. We had, we registered voters and of course, you know, Amalia did such a good job when she was in, in that office that almost ninety eight percent of the people in this county are registered. And, so we have the unique job to, to do now of trying to get people out to vote and so and then more, as more people move into this area, they are registering, but I don't know that those are, those are probably more Anglo that are registering.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Now, you mentioned being involved at least on, on the edges of a lot of the student movement.
Commissioner Gómez: Uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And you mentioned attending a Raza Unida conference. When did you become a Democrat or was there ever any question about that?
Commissioner Gómez: I, I think that it kind of just happened like osmosis, you know, because of the, the county that I was in and the relationships that I had developed. And, and there wasn't a, a major Republican party here for a long, long time. It was, it was Democratic mostly. But I, the, the Democrats that I ran around with and they were the young liberal at, at UT and they were Democrats. But I, my sense was that they were very open to, to listening to, you know, the needs that we said we had and that African-Americans said that they had. Of course, you know, not totally, you know, but I think sufficient, in sufficient numbers to, to open doors somewhat. And they participated in, in the, the Economy Furniture Strike, well some of them participated especially the more radical students. And yet, even though they were called radical by, you know, their community, they seemed to have a lot of, you know, ways of, of working with us. And certainly, certainly I feel that I got a lot of training just working with them on, on various issues. And, and then I would tell them about what our community was doing, you know, Mexicanos (Mexicans) were, were doing and were interested in. And so, but, but I think we, we haven't done enough yet. We have a long, I think we have a long way to go todavía (still).
Dr. Gutiérrez: Spend a few minutes telling me about the actual job of constable. Putting on that gun and going to the classes, serving paper, controlling your deputies. I assume you had some.
Commissioner Gómez: I did.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Your own budget and now being not with the commissioner that you worked with, but now that you are somewhat of an equal in terms of elected official and had to negotiate budget and things of that sort. How, how was all that like?
Commissioner Gómez: It was, it was a little scary. But I, I had a very good relationship with the commissioner's court. And, so when I took over the office there wasn't anything left for me. They, they took everything. Paper clips, folders, files. When I walked into that office, there was no... It was bare, totally bare. And they had taken all of the keys from all of the cars and, and, and keys to the, to the offices and jumbled them all up. And, and so I had to, you know, work out this puzzle, figure out where every key went. And, and then go to the commissioner's court and say you know, the budget has been spent. I don't have any resources and, and I know that I can't ask you in the middle of the year for, for some additional money, so would ya'll like to share some supplies with me? And, and we did. And, so basically what I, I had to do... They had a lot of warrants, just loads and loads and loads and it was a backlog. And they, that's what, all they left for me and there were all these files of. So we had to sit down and, and, and work out, you know, the, some kind of process. In, in a way it was good for me because I could start from scratch and make this office something that, that was truly mine and, and set my own goals. And, and so my staff.... I started out with three male deputies and one female. And I...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Holdovers?
Commissioner Gómez: No. These were all new people because I invited all the others to please leave, you know, with their boss. And I came in with my own staff and I had to send them to training. So we knew that, but we prepared for that. It would take, you know, a lot, I can't remember now how many weeks. It was like three months of training.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Tell me about that that you asked them to leave. Tell me exactly what went on. What did you say? Who did you meet with and how did you do it?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, I, their, their term ran out December 31st, 1980 and I came in January 1st. So about the middle of December I wrote them all letters that they needed to apply for the jobs if they wanted to, to remain and that they would be considered along with every other applicant I had. And so I, I didn't get any applications from them.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So the employees in Travis County are not like civil service? They don't stay on?
Commissioner Gómez: No.
Dr. Gutiérrez: With the Elected official, everybody goes?
Commissioner Gómez: They, they can or they, they, they can keep other people. To me, it was the fairest thing to do was to ask everybody to apply.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, who did you hire?
Commissioner Gómez: I hired Woody Stein who was a, a, a chief deputy to Sheriff Frank. And he had been defeated. And, so as of January 1st, the new sheriff was going to come in, so he came over with me. I, I had that experience and, and with the warrants and the civil papers, so he was ready to hit the road as soon as we, we got to, in the office.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Are you saying Saenz? S-A-E-N-Z.
Commissioner Gómez: S-T-E-I-N.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Oh, Stein.
Commissioner Gómez: Stein.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. And then I brought John Cantu over. He had some experience with the constable in Precinct 5 downtown. And, and he, you know, taking care of the cars and the vehicle stuff and you know, maintenance and all that kind of thing plus civil paper. He could hit the road running. And then the two other folks, Philip Rodriguez and

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Leticia Narvaez were new. And we knew that we were going to have to send them to, to school. I was grandfathered because I was the elected official. And, so I didn't have to go to training. And, so, but I was going to be the administrator anyway of the, of the, of the department.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Even to become a commissioned officer and to wear a gun and all?
Commissioner Gómez: Uh, yeah. I mean, I was grandfathered in at that time.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you even know how to shoot a gun?
Commissioner Gómez: I didn't. I never handled a gun before, but I, you know, I could handle paperwork.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you ever or did you go to classes?
Commissioner Gómez: I never had to. No, I never had to. I, I didn't go to classes, but I got my badge. And, but I think after that they, they, the legislature did change the rules because you know, it, it was kind of, it was kind of rough, you know. If you were going to be electing people who didn't, you know, were not certified peace officers and handling guns and that kind of thing.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, you did or you did not ever wear a gun?
Commissioner Gómez: I do not ever wear a gun.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: And, and so I, I always felt that my, the, the best defense I had was, you know, just to, to be firm and to talk to people and find out what the problem was and what could we do to help, you know, solve this problem. Pay the warrant. What, what's the problem? Why aren't you paying the warrant? The civil paper, about you know, a claim, about a debt that they had or about an eviction, you know. What can we do to help you solve this problem? And, so I never really found the need to wear a gun.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, those evictions sometimes get nasty.

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Commissioner Gómez: They do, but, but I, you know, they, they get a little bit, kind of wary. I mean you know, it gets to the point sometimes when, when, when the, the, the folks, you know, on either side can get a little unhappy, but I think, I never really did have any kind of situation like that. There was just one. People here pret... I think know the system. They knew, I've got so many days. Yeah, I've been served, but I've got so many days to take care of this or take care of that and, and then you know, move. Very few had to be physically, you know, evicted, you know, take their things out and lay them, put them on the sidewalk. And, but I, I never really had any situation that was, you know, that I really couldn't handle. And just one, I think is all I remember that the, the person had rented a TV and didn't return it. And, so they, the company came in and filed they wanted their property back. And the guy was very convinced that it was his TV because of mitigating circumstances. And, so I remember getting on the phone and I said "Look, this is not worth going to, to, to jail over. It's a TV. But if you feel that, that some situation exists that, that is not being heard by the other side, bring, you bring the TV in to me. We'll put it in a room here and lock it up where it'll be safe, safe. You go over to the J. P. and, and, and straighten out whatever the details are; and if he says that the TV belongs to you, I'll give it to you. I'll give it back to you. It's here. It's safe." . And that was the only situation where he, he, when the deputies went to see him, he said. "I'm not leaving, you're not taking the TV, you're going to have to shoot me." "No. We will not shoot you over a TV. And, so bring it in. And we'll take care of it."
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did he?
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. And then it got straightened out and he, he was right. And he got his TV back and he went home.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, I don't want to short change you here. Because I want to know the nitty gritty of this, this business of constable. Because next to the J. P., I guess the general public and a municipal judge, the general public has contact with those three types of people.
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: The municipal judge, the J. P., and the constable.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Which also is a wonderful organizing opportunity. And here you are a political person, did you really mean that you were just an administrative stayed in the office or did you hit the street out there in those cars. And go drink coffee and go visit people, go knock on doors?
Commissioner Gómez: I did. I did all of those things. And, and I visited people. And I went with the, the deputies when we had to serve paper. And, not only because I wanted to make sure that people knew that I was making sure that the work was being done properly. That they were being respected in spite of the fact that this was a difficult situation, you know, about an eviction, about a claim, about a warrant, about a... And the warrants are really about traffic tickets. A traffic ticket that someone got and it got old or you forgot about it. You lost the ticket. But meantime it's, the ticket is moving on and it makes it to J. P. court and then a warrant is issued. Or hot, or checks, you know, checks are bounced. They are written for insufficient funds. It's against the law, but you know, sometimes people move and they, and they forget. I ran into a lot of students who were UT students. They graduated, they had written a check when they were at UT. They graduated, they went on to the, to pursue their career. Some of them were in, in Europe, in London, in, in Paris, and I mean, other places. I mean, they totally forgot. We would do our research on, on those, on those checks; we'd find the address and write them a letter; and they would

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respond saying, "I'm so embarrassed. You know, "this happened when I was at UT." And, but that's how old some of these warrants were. So these people were not working these warrants. So when I came in, we did the research, found a good address for them, write a letter to them, they would send the money back se acabo (it's over with). It's over, you know. And, so there were a lot of, my view on it was these are not crooks that we were dealing with, you know. These were not violent people who, that we were dealing with. They are not murderers, they are not rapists. These are people who have, you know, been a little careless, and maybe not balancing the checkbook. Write a check and you write another one, you write another one, and you don't balance it and you forget how much money you've got in there. And then too, you, you're very mobile, you're a student, you know, and you take care of the food. It, it was for food, it was for clothes. It was not anything that they were stealing. They weren't, they weren't writing it for, for furniture and then, you know, taking the furniture and leaving town. It wasn't that kind of situation. So, that was my philosophy on it. We were dealing with people who were just a little careless, that they forgot. And, so if we reminded them. And, and we did find out that a lot of them had gone on and had successful careers. It would have been embarrassing, you know, to walk in and try to arrest this person in front of their clientele or wherever. And, and so, and they wrote us back. And, and I've got letters. And I, I kept some of those letters. Thanks. "Thanks for reminding me of this. I am so embarrassed." And, and I have letters postmarked in London and, and other places where we caught up with them. And, and they, and they sent the money back, you know. It wasn't major money, you know, and certainly not compared to what they are making. And so, so that's how I viewed that job of constable.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: During these thirteen years, I'm sure there were times when you didn't know what to do. Or, or couldn't quite figure it out or perhaps you needed another opinion. Who did you turn to; who did you call; who did you go see; how did you figure this out?
Commissioner Gómez: I would call the county attorney's office. And, and I had a good relationship with them, too. And they would just tell me, "Well, the law is this. And, but you, your discretion is this." I think the, and, and probably the, the, the best weapon I had, I didn't need the gun, but the best weapon I had was discretion. And I think I have a, I, I was endowed with a very large dose of common sense, you know. And, so and, and so, that's what I think is, was my best weapon is the discretion and the common sense to, to apply that discretion in a, in a just way.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Another thing that constables do is the truancy. How did that work out? What stories can you tell me there?
Commissioner Gómez: The, the, during the years that I was there we did not enforce the, the attendance school laws as much as we are today. And we had a few. The school system had some truancy officers who would come to the J. P. court to talk about some of the worst cases that they had. And the J. P. would issue a, a warrant for the parent. They would give us those and we would go and, and, and approach the parent and, and talk to them too, you know. So that they wouldn't be scared, you know. Their first reaction was, "You are taking me to jail because my kid didn't go to school?" And I said, "No. I'm taking you to see the judge and when you, you have to have a conversation with the judge. And about the attendance of your child." And they'd try to explain to me what all the reasons were and I said, "Well, you know, that's, that's fine. I understand, but you need to tell that to the judge and get the judge to understand that." And, so I, it was my job to interpret a lot of the, what warrants meant, what the papers were that were issued

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by the, by the judge, by the J. P. And, so I took that as my job, to interpret and, and say this is what we need to do and explain exactly what we, what it was that we were doing. And so, but today, as commissioner, I think I've, I've played a bigger role in trying to make sure that we do enforce the school attendance laws a lot more. Mainly because I believe that, just like my dad believed, that education is going to be the key for a lot of our, our, our kids, Mexican-Americans especially and, and African-Americans to get an education, to, to, to hold a job, to raise their families. And you know, and then the cycle goes on. And, and so what we have done now is we have an inner-local with the school districts. The AISD and Del Valley Independent School District that they take the attendance. They, they let the constables know who has been absent. And then that evening the constable deputies go to knock on the doors and let the parents know that their child was absent from school that, today, that particular day. A lot of times the, the major reaction has been thank you for letting us know. And we want to make sure that they know that we care about the kids. We care that the parents know where their kids are, that they are not just, you know, getting them into trouble. I want to do it, this is also a prevention program in my estimation. I'd rather keep them in school than have them out on the street, get in trouble, and wind up in Gardener Betts, our detention center. And so to me it's a prevention program. And, but besides that, I think it, it was just instilled in me by my father that education was what we need as human beings, you know.
Dr. Gutiérrez: This, this facility is Gardener Betts?
Commissioner Gómez: Gardener Betts.
Dr. Gutiérrez: B E-T-T-E-S?
Commissioner Gómez: S. B-E-T-T-S.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.

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Commissioner Gómez: Yeah.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How large did your staff grow from the first three or four people you had?
Commissioner Gómez: I kept it pretty small. I kept it lean and mean.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, when you left, how many people did you have?
Commissioner Gómez: We, there were the same number that I, that I have...
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. What was your salary when you worked for Moya?
Commissioner Gómez: It was, gosh, probably in `73 or `74, `75 maybe, I finally reached twelve thousand dollars a year.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And the constable?
Commissioner Gómez: And the constable made about, oh gosh, twenty three thousand.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And commissioner?
Commissioner Gómez: Commissioner made fifty thousand when I got there. And today we make sixty eight thousand.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Not bad.
Commissioner Gómez: Not bad for a Mexican-American little girl.
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. Going back thirteen years, that means you ran three times?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How did the second campaign go? Did you have an opponent; was it difficult?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you raise more money than eight thousand?
Commissioner Gómez: I had raised fifteen thousand the, the second time, the first, well, my reelection, my first reelection. And then after that it, it, it escalated. Oh, I don't know, twenty two, twenty thousand, twenty two, and then finally I can't remember how much I spent the last time, but you know, it kept increasing a little bit.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How did you raise that, those moneys?
Commissioner Gómez: Same thing. Fund raisers and having, you know, sponsorships for my fund raisers. For a constable, of course you know, they, it's, you

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know, people want someone that they can trust, you know, is doing the job for them, but you know, it's not a policy making position. But I, I managed to, to raise that money and, and defeat my opponents. I..
Dr. Gutiérrez: Who, who was the opponent in the first reelection?
Commissioner Gómez: The first one, I'm trying to, there were several. One was a deputy in Precinct 5. He was Mexican-American. And then there were, there was another man who had worked as a deputy in previous years for a constable. I can't even remember. One was Carlos Berru
Dr. Gutiérrez: Berru?
Commissioner Gómez: Berru and then there was a Frank Sanchez. And I think that was, I had about two or three opponents that time and I won without a, a runoff.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And no Republican?
Commissioner Gómez: And no Republicans.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Any women run against you?
Commissioner Gómez: No. No.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And the last time around, the third reelection?
Commissioner Gómez: The, the
Dr. Gutiérrez: The second reelection.
Commissioner Gómez: It was the second reelection, Guadalupe Chapa ran against me and, and he....
Dr. Gutiérrez: Male?
Commissioner Gómez: The Casino. The casino owner of the Casino Ballroom was the name of the business. He had some money. And, and so, it was, you know, I thought well, OK, you know, I'll go, this is my first attempt at running against someone who's well financed, his own money.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, how much money did you raise that time?
Commissioner Gómez: And I raised, I think, about fifteen. And he spent thirty. And but I still won.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Without a runoff?

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Commissioner Gómez: Without a runoff.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, there was only two of you.
Commissioner Gómez: . There were two of us only.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: And, and then... Let me see, somewhere, somewhere in there, Marcos de Leon ran against me, too. It must have been the first time when there were two or three in there. And, so but I won without a, you know, a runoff
Dr. Gutiérrez: He became a county commissioner, no?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes. He became a county commissioner right before me and...
Dr. Gutiérrez: And he was defeated by?
Commissioner Gómez: He was defeated by me.
Dr. Gutiérrez: By you?
Commissioner Gómez: Uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. And so...
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right.
Commissioner Gómez: ...and so, then, I think that was the last, Guadalupe Chapa was the last one. And then I, in `93, I, I resigned to run for commissioner.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Well, then let's talk about that.
Commissioner Gómez: OK.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And again remind you, if anything you want to bring up from early childhood...
Commissioner Gómez: Certainly.
Dr. Gutiérrez: ... or genealogy,
Commissioner Gómez: OK.
Dr. Gutiérrez: ...whatever, just throw it in.
Commissioner Gómez: OK.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: What made you decide to, to go there from constable to commissioner; what were some of the factors; who did you consult; and then how did you go about that?
Commissioner Gómez: I think that after thirteen years as constable and then my seven and a half years as, as an assistant to a commissioner, gave me a real good feeling for county government. And, and also a very good feeling about the, the constituents and who the constituents were and how I needed to reach them. And, and then I, I did get a lot of questions. In-between the, the time that I... I have to go back a little bit. When I took office in 1981 as constable I also went back to college and I enrolled in St. Edward's University in the new college program. And, so while I was campaigning for that first term as constable, I got news from St. Ed's that I had gotten credit for thirty two hours. And that was all of the experience that I had had in the community on campaigns and, and everything else. So, so all of that activity, you know, that, that a person has in the community is college creditable.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Whole freshman year. You became a sophomore
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah, it was a whole freshman year. And so, so then after that it took me about ten years to finish college. And mainly because I had the full time job as constable. And then I would go in the evenings and they were very accommodating and that experience at St. Edward's was extremely positive. The counselors are, are very, very helpful. They are very open especially to minority students. They have the CAMP program and I can't remember, it escapes me what the whole title means. It's something for migrant program, CA Migrant Program, whatever. And, but they are very, very open to, to minority students especially Mexican-American students.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And you were in that program?
Commissioner Gómez: No, I wasn't in that program, but I was on that campus. And, so the, the counselors, the professors, you know, all very, very open, very

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helpful. And, so I got in and but it took me about ten years, but I had a lot of classes with some of the students in that CAMP program. And they were from, from the Valley. And I was able to, to be a, a mentor to some, some of the students. And they were afraid. They had never been away from home, you know, and, and they, they were homesick. They wanted to go back home. And so, part of what I did was to, to, to provide, you know, some kind of connection to someone here in Austin and Travis County. This, this many miles away from home and encourage them to, you know, yes, it's scary but you know, whenever you get scared call me. You know, whenever you get homesick call me.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did they?
Commissioner Gómez: And, and, and some did and some didn't, you know. And some went back home. Some stayed and some have, have gone on. And, and then we have an alumni list and, and they'll list what everybody's doing because they encourage us to stay in touch with them to let them know what we are doing. And they'll run the list and some of them are doing really well, you know, in state government and, you know, throughout the state and, and the country. I mean, Missouri, I mean, you know, there're all over the country. And, so that's been really good. And you know, unfortunately some, I think you know, went back home.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, what did you get your degree in?
Commissioner Gómez: I got my degree in sociology. And, and then I, I did a lot of work with criminal justice and just all kinds of things. It's, it's a, I think it's a well rounded education. We did some, you know, statistics, you know, all that kind of stuff
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, when did you graduate?
Commissioner Gómez: I graduated in 1991.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you do the ceremony and all?

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Commissioner Gómez: I, I did it all. And I graduated suma cum laude.
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right.
Commissioner Gómez: So, so it was an extremely positive.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Nothing about going back to school as an older person right? So now you have to be serious.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think I was really serious. And now, I knew, you know, how important... How I could connect what I was studying to what I was doing, you know, so that connection was very much there. The criminal justice and the, the conversations that we had, you know, with, with some of the professors, you know, can actually apply what you are reading to what you are doing. And so, it was an extremely positive experience.
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. Well then you ran for commissioner.
Commissioner Gómez: OK. And then I ran for commissioner.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How is that race different than running for constable; what kind of money you had to raise; how many volunteers did you have; there's different issues involved?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Tell me a little bit about all of that, the campaign part.
Commissioner Gómez: OK. The, the, the, I guess the biggest difference is the money, the, the amount of money. It's a policy making position. It's, it sets the, the, we set the tax rate. We have, we set the budget for the jails, the, the human services part, the roads, the infrastructure of the county. So, I mean, it's, it's a major difference. And, but, but I think that the, the similarities with constable were, were that the, the, the constituents were the same more or less. The, the commissioner precinct is just a little bit bigger than the, than the, than the constable precinct, but the constituent.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How is that? Is there two constables at the same precinct?
Commissioner Gómez: There's five constables.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: By place?
Commissioner Gómez: in, in. No. There are just five.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Separate districts?
Commissioner Gómez: Five precincts. Yeah. There's five precincts overlaid on the four precincts for commissioner. And the J. P. and the constable precinct is the same. The J. P. and the constable are, are elected from the same district. And it's just a little bit smaller than the commissioner's precinct.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: And so my precinct extends a little further west, but that's why it goes out to, to Menchaca.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And this is not a commissioner?
Commissioner Gómez: The commissioner.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: So that's why I go a little further out west.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: And take in more Anglo precincts than the, than the constable and the J. P. And so, so in that respect it was, it's a little bit bigger, but the constituency is, is kind of basically the same. And, and then I think that the, the coalition that, that I was part of is still there. And, so it's, even though some new people are moving in, the people who are moving to Travis County are moving because of what Travis County is. The, the makeup of it, the, the university, the, the St. Ed's, the interests are kind of like there, environmental interests, the Green (Party), the greenie, the Green voters. And, so it's, it's progressive sort of, you know. And, and then we have a lot of retired people. People who have lived here since Austin was very small and probably people who moved, were here in the Forties and Fifties. So, that, that's still there. So, I can identify with, with those people. They were probably there when I was in school, in elementary and, and, and I, I know some of

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their, I know some of their sons and daughters. We went to school together. So, there's some, you know, some similarity.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How did the budget change? How much budget did you handle when you were constable and then how much budget are you handling now as commissioner?
Commissioner Gómez: Uh, well the, it's not that big. The commissioner has a small staff I have two executive assistants and one administrative aide. And, so, so there's a total of three, so the staff is basically the same size. The budget is probably about the same size. My budget at the constable's office was something like a hundred and fifty thousand. The budget now is about two hundred thousand. And, but my, but what really changes is that I'm, I oversee the budget for the entire county. Setting the tax rate for the entire county and the budget for each of the departments.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How big is that?
Commissioner Gómez: It's three hundred million.
Dr. Gutiérrez: That's a lot.
Commissioner Gómez: It's a lot of money. But, but it's definitely smaller than the city budget. The city budget is about a billion, a billion dollars. And so, so there, there's some challenges there that, that I, I enjoy. Trying to set up inner locals with other taxing entities, the school systems, the school districts, the city of Austin. To cover services like the EMS, to cover the services with the, the school districts like the AS, ASAP program, The Absentee Student Assistance Program to keep kids in school, to enforce the school attendance laws. We have inner locals with (inaudible) County to fix a road that they can't afford to fix. So, and I enjoy those, those inner locals to try to, to do more with less money basically, to cut out duplication. But to get the, the work done and, and maybe not have to raise people's taxes so much. I really don't like to raise taxes because I think that, that we can make better

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use of our money. We can be more creative and innovative in trying to, to use our resources together with somebody else like the school system or other counties or the city and not have to just raise taxes. So that, so that we have more money to do, to have, to buy more stuff.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Was Moya the first Mexican-American commissioner?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes, in Travis County.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And he was beaten by de Leon?
Commissioner Gómez: By Hank Gonzalez.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Hank Gonzalez.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. And then Hank was beaten by Marcos.
Dr. Gutiérrez: ... de Leon?
Commissioner Gómez: ....de Leon.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. So you are about to become the first Mexican-American woman again?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. Why did you run against de Leon? What were the issues and what was the, the reason or if there was any? Or maybe you just wanted the position.
Commissioner Gómez: Well, I, I, I don't think I'd run for a position because I just want, you know, the power or you know, or the, or the chall.. the, the headaches, you know. Just for the hell of it, I don't think I've wanted to run for the position. I thought that I could be more effective in trying to do a little bit more for, for Precinct 4 and to represent Precinct 4 maybe a little, with more depth and, and with broader support. And I think that's why I ran. I'm in the job now, but there's some things that, that, that we don't, as Precinct 4 and as Precinct I where the African-Americans live, it's not that we have all that much more power. I think the power is, is really in, in the whole society in Travis County which controls basically where resources go. And, so I didn't do it for the power of it because I don't think there's that whole, there's that

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much power for us. And even if Precinct 1 and 4 combined, we can still be defeated by Precinct 2 and 3, you know. And if it comes down to the, to voting we are going to be out voted any time. And, so, so it's, it wasn't for the power and so, but I think it's given me a real view of where the, the powers are that be and where they determine that the, that the resources go.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, I hope you'll tell us about that in just a minute. Let me ask you about the difference in political style because you are alluding to it, but I wish you could be more specific.
Commissioner Gómez: OK.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Do women do politics different than men or do Chicanas do different than, than Chicanos?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, it, it's an interesting question because it's been raised before here in Travis County because someone...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Do you want to take a break or do you just want to take a sip of water?
Commissioner Gómez: Please. Let me just take a little sip.
Dr. Gutiérrez: I didn't turn it off so you're showing us how you drink water in Austin style.
Commissioner Gómez: I think the question has been raised before because it was noticed there were a lot of Mexican-American women in office. We've been elected to county treasurer, the district clerk, county court at law judge, school board, the Austin Community College board, J. P., and county commissioner. So there's about eight or nine of us there. And versus the number of Mexican-American men. I, I guess the style that, that, that women have... And, and I guess we want to talk about Mexican-American women, the Mexican-American community? I, I really can't tell you, pinpoint what the difference is other than maybe Mexican-American men are just more to the point with, with the rest of the, the policy make, makers. And, and... No, no beating around the bush, I

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guess, whereas maybe is it that Mexican-American women listen more to, to the issues that are going on. Not that we cannot be confrontational. So I guess it comes down to style. I, I really don't know. I was hoping that you could help clarify the issue for me.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well no, it's your interview. We can talk later.
Commissioner Gómez: OK.
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. Well then, you already outlined how you went about it, why you decided to run, and, and you've given us this, this philosophical kind of opinion. Let's talk about the campaign and you raised about fifteen thousand. How many volunteers did you have?
Commissioner Gómez: Now for the commissioner race, I, I had raised, the first time I think it was fifty thousand dollars. .
Dr. Gutiérrez: Oh that's right. Fifteen was the last constable.
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: This is now three times as much and more.
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How in the world did you do that?
Commissioner Gómez: I went and visited all of the law firms who were interested in, in good government. I visited old friends whom I had helped elect. I
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you borrow money?
Commissioner Gómez: I did not borrow money. And so then I went to see all those old friends who were, who had asked me to, to think about commissioner and I said OK, I thought about it and now I'm here, you know. Can you help? What, what can you do to help me? And, and so I, I did the fund raising, the sponsorships, and this time I could do sponsorships, you know. OK, can you sponsor me for a thousand dollars? Sponsor me for five hundred, two fifty, a hundred or whatever you can do.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Now is this a specific fund raising event or what do you mean by...
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: ....these sponsorships?

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Commissioner Gómez: The sponsorships
Dr. Gutiérrez: What's the difference between that and a contribution?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, the contribution, I mean, it's, it's the same thing except that the, the sponsorships are up front money. I'm going to have this margarita and mariachis fund raiser at Limon's Restaurant. I need to raise some money so that I can conduct this race. Will you be a sponsor for a thousand dollars? You know, what kind of sponsorship can you take? A thousand, five hundred, two fifty, or what? And then names are displayed. And then tickets are twenty five dollars for, for the regular folks. Not a lot of people can pay the twenty five dollars. And, so I take that into consideration, you know. I'm going to have another fund raiser which is the fish fry at Rabbit's where we'll charge three fifty a, a ticket and but they sell the hell out of those tickets. You know, print up a bunch of tickets and, and, and assign them to everybody. You're in charge of twenty five tickets. Sell them. And get us the money and get your people there. We have wonderful fish fries and, and those are for the regular folks, you know, who can't afford the twenty five dollars or the ten dollars. But they, they can afford three fifty. And, and they can afford to, you know, they'll bring their, their kids.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, this, this suggest something. I mean, I hope you don't offense. As a constable you are kind of on the low end of the elected officials. But now you are running for big time county commissioner. You are at the top end of elected officials...
Commissioner Gómez: Right.
Dr. Gutiérrez: ...competing with even bigger ones that are countywide.
Commissioner Gómez: Sure.
Dr. Gutiérrez: There is the district clerk, county clerk, county attorney, county judge, etc.
Commissioner Gómez: District attorney.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Do you all, did you coalesce with those eight or nine women or a few other Mexican men or, or did you still work with your coalition? How can you stop from tripping over each other? I mean, everybody is having fund raisers, everybody is hitting up, grab it and have a thing there, everybody is hitting up the same people that sell twenty five tickets. How do you work that?
Commissioner Gómez: I did get in touch with the Hispa... The Mexican-American women and say I'm going to have a fund raiser this date, you know. And, so we coordinate our schedules and then they'll let me know what dates they have so that we don't have, you know, trying to have a little bit of space in-between. Because we will be hitting the same people and, and I think we hit them over and over and over. And, and then with the Democratic party, we get on their calendar so that every other elected official who's thinking of having a fund raiser stays away from those dates that are already taken, they are already taken. And, and so yeah, there's some coordination going on about that. But yeah, we hit the same people.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How about in terms of volunteers? Do you all share the same ones? Do you all run a consented slate or is it a slate?
Commissioner Gómez: No, we don't run any slates. A long time ago Travis County folks decided that we were not going to ever support slates.
Dr. Gutiérrez: What happened?
Commissioner Gómez: And, and I, I think sometime in the past, probably Sixties, early Sixties, some, some bad experiences were, were experienced with slates. And, and I think there was some backlash, not only to the people supporting the slate, but to some of the people who were on the same slate. So, some of the candidates had some backlash. And, so after that it was like no, we can support the same people. But let's not have a slate, per se.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Was, was that around the same time as when Jim Hightower and Mattox and Richards and all of them, they ran kind of a slate? At least statewide they did.
Commissioner Gómez: Probably statewide. But it was never like this is our slate, you know. And, and, so you do kind of fall in-between because of all of the endorsement meetings that we have to go to. And, and we all kind of travel together like a troop. And, and, so yes, we are there together and we talk and we share information and all that. But when, when, and, and the organizations who endorse come out with a list. This is who we endorse for all the, the positions. But it's not like the campaign managers are presenting a slate to an organization. This is who we want you to support. But rather it's something that comes from the, the grassroots.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Are those endorsements any good?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, I, I suppose they are. I don't know that we'd want to take a chance on not getting any of the, the endorsements. And, so you know, it's, it's, it may not be everything, but why take a chance?
Dr. Gutiérrez: How about the actual use of the media? As constable, did you use print cards or did you get on
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: newspaper ads or radio; what kind of radio? I assume that you didn't do any TV. .
Commissioner Gómez: No, no. The TV is much too expensive.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Not with those budgets that you raised.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. That, that's not
Dr. Gutiérrez: How about commissions or how did all that change?
Commissioner Gómez: For commissioner, we just, it's just too expensive. And then the, also the, because of the precinct levels, if you use TV it's going to reach everybody in the, in the service area. Well, how many of those people

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who see it can actually vote? So, it's not really, it doesn't pay off really. So
Dr. Gutiérrez: So how did you do it?
Commissioner Gómez: the direct mailers reach the, the targeted voters.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Do you buy that?
Commissioner Gómez: We do a lot of walking. Yes. We buy... I mean, that has now grown into an industry where people are identified. People who vote in every Democratic primary, in every Republican primary, everybody is identified, you know. And, so that has, has really grown into a business.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Yard signs?
Commissioner Gómez: Pardon me? Yard signs?
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you use them?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Bumper stickers?
Commissioner Gómez: The small ones, the large ones. .
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did Moya print them?
Commissioner Gómez: Bumpers. No.
Dr. Gutiérrez: He printed some early Raza Unida stuff.
Commissioner Gómez: Oh really?
Dr. Gutiérrez: Yes. I don't think he wants to admit to that, but he did. Radio, Spanish language radio?
Commissioner Gómez: Spanish language radio. Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: By yourself or did your opponents?
Commissioner Gómez: By myself.
Dr. Gutiérrez: What did you say or how did you pitch the message?
Commissioner Gómez: It's just, I'm Margaret Gómez of... And then I recall how I've been with this community. I've, I've been there since 1969. I've done it all. I've, I've worked for other people. I've answered the phones. There was never a, a task too little to, to be beneath me. There, there's, I've

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done it, done everything. I've walked. I've registered. I've gotten the vote out. I, I go to church with you. I shop with you. I, I went to school with you, with your kids, with, you know, my child when to school with your kids., I mean,
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: I'm, I'm here. I've always been here and I will always be here.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Newspaper ads?
Commissioner Gómez: No. Those are very expensive.
Dr. Gutiérrez: E-mail, WEB page?
Commissioner Gómez: We did some and probably will do more in the future because as, as, it depends on where the, the voters are. If they are on the WEB page, we need to be on the WEB page, you know. If, if, and that's the purpose of the direct mailer too. We want to reach you where you are. And we certainly don't want to mail to where my voters, you know my supporters aren't.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you do voter registration and early vote?
Commissioner Gómez: We did the early vote. Very much so. And we did, we were open to voter registration, but it's, it's like everybody is registered.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: You know, it's a matter of, of identifying the people and getting them to identify with the candidates, you know. And, do you trust me enough to go and vote for me?
Dr. Gutiérrez: Now, the early vote, certainly this is a, a very dangerous area when, when you talk about uncoordination. Surely you, you had to be working with other candidates and you had to cut some deals? Are those honored?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, I don't know that I cut deals. What I did is I basically ran my own campaign with my own campaign manager. And, and then we, we talked about the, you know, where we needed to, to send to, to, to, our mailers. And, and we knew about early voting. We, we have to

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know when that starts. We have to, we have mobile units also here in Travis County. We move those to the various buildings where the elderly are and then we move them around to universities, to state buildings. So there really isn't any excuse for people not voting because we are actually taking the voting to them wherever they are. Then the early voting period is, you know, kind of long there, two or three weeks at HEB so you can vote while you are shopping. And, but I think it's, it's, it's having a big impact. The whole early voting process is having a big impact on election day itself. We have all of those precincts set up and we have, we hire people to, to conduct the campaign, I mean the election and then very few voters trickle in, so you know, I think the whole process, the, the election process is turning around with early voting.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Uh huh. Did you literally mean that your letter went out saying vote for Margaret Gómez, period, early vote? Not vote for Margaret early Gómez plus A, B, and C?
Commissioner Gómez: No. Margaret Gómez.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So everybody does that the same?
Commissioner Gómez: Everybody does, basically does their own thing too. Because of that experience that was had way back when.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, we don't know what went on.
Commissioner Gómez: But I can't remember now what exactly what happened.
Dr. Gutiérrez: . All right.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah.
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. So you beat de Leon. How badly?
Commissioner Gómez: It was, I'm trying to think here. Gosh. I, I had to go into a, a runoff with him and...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Who was the third person?
Commissioner Gómez: It was Robert, darn, I can't remember now. Anyway, it... este (and)
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right.

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Commissioner Gómez: he's, he's in East Austin. I'll feel real bad if he sees this and knows that I forgot his last name. But anyway, he was, I was actually the second. I came in second to Marcos in the vote.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, you were able to turn that around?
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. And so, then, when, for the runoff on April, in April, my ...really mobilized everybody.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Now, what year was that? '94?
Commissioner Gómez: '94. April of '94.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Now did, did the split between Mexican American democrats and then the subsequent progeny, the Tejano Democrats, did that have anything to do with this?
Commissioner Gómez: I don't think it had anything to do. It didn't have that much of an impact I don't believe.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Because I know de Leon was very much in, in favor of Roberto Alonzo and staying with Mexican-American Democrats
Commissioner Gómez: Right. Right.
Dr. Gutiérrez: and so on.
Commissioner Gómez: Right.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Where did you end up on this?
Commissioner Gómez: Actually I, I kind of was on the fringes of it because I, I was no longer involved in, in the statewide type of politics. I was more local and, and I guess it's all about local politics, you know, really. And, and then too, the, the time that I was at St. Ed's. And then the time that I was constable was taking up all of my time. And, so I really had no time for the state politics.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. All right.
Commissioner Gómez: And so I was kind of on the fringe, you know, again.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, we'll go back in a minute and I'll ask you about the job of commissioner and those things I asked you about constable. But let's get the last campaign out of the way.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So four years later you, you ran again.
Commissioner Gómez: Uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Who were your opponents then?
Commissioner Gómez: I had just this past March. Moya.
Dr. Gutiérrez: The person you worked for?
Commissioner Gómez: The person I worked for.
Dr. Gutiérrez: This is Richard right?
Commissioner Gómez: Richard Moya, yeah.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Head former aide to the governor and, and
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: first commissioner?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes. And my boss. My former boss.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Right.
Commissioner Gómez: He's, he's the one that ran against me in March in the primary.
Dr. Gutiérrez: What brought that on?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, he said that I was ineffective. That I wasn't bringing enough resources to Precinct 4, projects and things like that. And, and, so we talked about that on the campaign trail. And, you know, I think the voters decided that, you know, to keep me.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Were you surprised that he did that?
Commissioner Gómez: I was surprised he ran.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Did you talk to him?
Commissioner Gómez: I... We... I, I asked him about it. And I think two weeks prior to the rumor getting out that he was going to run against me, we had talked on the phone and we had stayed in touch about issues. And, and what needed to get done. And he was helping me, I had asked him to help

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me find some land for a, a Metropolitan Park in Precinct 4. And I thought he was working on that, and then, I heard he was going to run and I was OK. So much for communication.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Anybody else? Well, so much for lying. Communication was there, it just wasn't very honest.
Commissioner Gómez: But...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Maybe you didn't ask him the right questions and maybe he didn't tell the full truth.
Commissioner Gómez: It could be.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, we, we won't call him a liar, OK.
Commissioner Gómez: And, so, but he was the only one who ran against me.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. So it was head on?
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. So it was head on.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And how bad did you beat him?
Commissioner Gómez: I'm trying to, to remember here. The, accurately, it was sixty forty.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Wow! That's a landslide.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Money. How much money did it cost this time?
Commissioner Gómez: It cost me fifty thousand. It just, it looks like it's not going to ever get over fifty thousand to run.
Dr. Gutiérrez: That's still formidable. Same formula? Law firms?
Commissioner Gómez: Same formula.
Dr. Gutiérrez: . Sponsorships?
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. Except that he cut in.
Dr. Gutiérrez: (inaudible).
Commissioner Gómez: He cut in on me a little bit with the law firms. He's got some friends, you know, who have been very loyal to him. And they stuck with him. And I talked to them anyway and I said I, I understood, you know, you've been friends a long time, but if there's ever a chance that, that you can help me, I, I certainly want that help. And, so now I have a

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Republican for the first time ever in Travis County. I guess for Precinct 4, because all the times that Richard ran in 1970 through the present, this was the first time we've had a Republican come out. I, I don't think that...
Dr. Gutiérrez: But that's more symbolic than a threat, no?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Because this is a solid Democratic precinct?
Commissioner Gómez: This is a solid Democratic precinct.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And, and you are very fortunate that you are going to be on the court now with redistricting coming up before your term is over.
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, are you going to do anything about the district shape?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, I'm going to, to see what exactly the growth has done to us. Now the, what cannot change is the line on the north between the Hispanic,
Dr. Gutiérrez: Seventh?
Commissioner Gómez: the Mexican-Americans and the African-Americans. That cannot change.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Why?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, I think we cannot dilute each other's strength. And we can't mix the two...
Dr. Gutiérrez: Is there a Black commissioner?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes. Yes there is from Precinct 1. Now they're, they're, African-Americans are not in the majority in Precinct 1 either. So there's a lot of coalescing going on here in order for there to be a, a repre, a representation of the, of the community on the commissioner's court. And, so, but, but I don't think we need to dilute each other's strengths in terms of the Black community and the, and the Mexican-American community.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Again, bring up anything you want to that we haven't covered, but I, I want to get some specifics.
Commissioner Gómez: Uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Now you, you combined the first term and the second term. Now you find yourself not being the boss except other than your two assistants and, and receptionist or whatever the other person was.
Commissioner Gómez: Uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Now you got colleagues. You got four others that you got to deal with. One who is more equal than others.
Commissioner Gómez: Uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: The judge. And you need at least two more to get anything done.
Commissioner Gómez: Exactly.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, how did you go about making that transition and, and how do you go about getting those two other votes at least?
Commissioner Gómez: I think that I, I was very successful during the first term in doing that. And, and I think I was probably the swing vote on a lot of things. And, and, so at least that's been pointed out to me by people who observe. And, and, and I think again, the reason I think I'm on that court is because I want to do things differently than we, than, than have been done in the past. I want us to... Of course, politics is, is involved in what we do, but we don't have to do the politics that is solely for one, one side or the other. We can do politics that serves everyone who is in need. And, so to, to allocate the resources where the needs are, to, to strengthen the, the links that are weak, if you will, you know. So that the entire community can be stronger. There's... I'm fully committed. I always have been, to human services. Because I, those are the needs that, that are there for people who, who need a hand from time to time. And, but it doesn't mean that it has to be fluffy. It doesn't mean that it has to ignore the needs of people who have the real needs. And, and, and, and so, we can hold that, that section of our

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government accountable that we will serve people who are in need. And we are not gonna just throw the money away on something that somebody else thought they had to spend the money on rather then the needs of people. And,so, and, and, of course, we have the, the, the concern that everybody in Travis County has and that is their public safety. They want to feel safe on the streets. They want to feel safe in the schools. Their children have been attacked in schools so they want to feel safe in those schools. And I guess we have a responsibility to make sure that people who are, who are raping or murdering our, our constituents are removed, you know, from, from society. And, and we need to provide for their care as well. To not be abused when they are in jails, in our jails. They... you know. We still have to make sure that those buildings are constitutional and, and take care of their rights. And, so it's, it's a, it's a real balancing act here to try to, to make sure that we address all of these needs and in, in a very equitable way as possible. Now the, the judge and I, you know, go back sometime, you know, the Sixties. And, so we were able to forge some kind of partnership Although we are not going to agree on everything.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Who is the judge?
Commissioner Gómez: Bill Aleshire.
Dr. Gutiérrez: How do you spell the last name?
Commissioner Gómez: ALE-S-H I-R-E.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: And, so he, he's had a real rich experience here in Travis County since he came here as a student as well. But he's going to leave this term. And, so we are going to have Sam Biscoll who was one of the, the, was the commish, one of the commissioners from Precinct I and so he's going to probably be the county judge this next term in `99. Although he has a Republican opponent, Hank Gonzales, who, who defeated Moya and as commissioner. So but it just...

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Are, are you saying it's going to be a special election in 1999? No. It's the general election coming in November.
Commissioner Gómez: Ah. The `98 one. Yeah. The `98 one. All right. OK.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And then in `99 they'll take office. OK.
Commissioner Gómez: And, so, but Hank is running as a Republican so chances are, you know, Travis County being a Democratic precinct. I mean, county that we'll have the Democratic county judge. And, so he'll be African-American and then.
Dr. Gutiérrez: This is the commissioner out of Precinct 1?
Commissioner Gómez: Yes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Sitting commissioner?
Commissioner Gómez: He resigned to run for county judge.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And you all appointed somebody else over there?
Commissioner Gómez: No. Bill is staying there until he, his term runs out in December. You know, he's there. He just didn't run anymore. And so the commissioner from Precinct 1 and Precinct 3 resigned to run for county judge. And, so Sam has survived. Sam, Sam is a survivor for the Democratic ticket. And, so we'll have a, almost a brand new court in, in 1999 with three new members. And, so I know I'm going back. And, so the commissioner from Precinct 2 is also running. So if she's back, they'll be two, two members, well hold over members.
Dr. Gutiérrez: So, when did she get elected?
Commissioner Gómez: Who?
Dr. Gutiérrez: That other woman.
Commissioner Gómez: The other woman. She was elected when I was elected and then the woman who was on there before was a hold over from two years ago, so we have three women on the court. And...

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Dr. Gutiérrez: So, so you weren't the first woman? You were the first Mexican-American woman?
Commissioner Gómez: First Mexican-American woman.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah.
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. Well now, let's get to the actual job of commissioner. How is that different; what do you enjoy about it the most; what do you hate about it?
Commissioner Gómez: Well, I, I like it because I, I believe that I'm contributing to, to the, the kind of services that constituents from Travis County receive in terms of human services, criminal justice, the, the infrastructure, public safety, and, and then our kids. The juvenile system. And, and I think that as much as we can to do the prevention programs to, to keep young people from getting into our system and staying in school. And, so we are having an impact in that manner to, to, for the future, for the education of their future and their future families. So I enjoy it. I like to, to work with some of the other members to talk about, you know. The tax rate, you know. Is there room; what, where you gonna, what are we going to do about our tax rate? Well you know, I, I just, I just don't believe that governments ought to have all the money that they can have and get their hands on without first making sure that they are innovative and creative and, and really accountable for the money that they already have. And, so I'm, I'm just not one of those people who automatically say, "We need a tax increase so we can do more." Although we are doing more. We are trying to automate Travis County with a criminal justice system so that all of the offices, the D.A., the sheriff, the constables, the, the county attorney, the district judges all have an ability to communicate with each other through computers about someone who is in the system. And we don't have two offices looking for this same person. And they don't. They can't

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tell if they are both duplicating the effort because they can't communicate. That's going to cost us twenty five million dollars. And, so we are going to have to phase that in. You know, it's going to take two or three years to get that done without raising taxes. And it's, it's just a way of investing our money differently than the way we have before. Instead of buying a computer, a stand alone computer for every department we're, we're putting in a system in which they can communicate together. I think it'll work better for us in the long run. It'll also take care of that year 2000 problem that everybody is talking about.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Maybe.
Commissioner Gómez: Maybe. And, and whatever that problem is, you know, it could turn out that, that it isn't anything. So, so anyway the other thing that we've done is we've implemented a, a, a, oh, what is it called, a, a pay, a compensation plan for all our employees. Austin and Travis County is a very expensive community in which to live. And, for a long time everybody who came to the University of Texas, as a student, was told by employers, "You want to stay in Austin? You love it so much?" You got to stay here and work for peanuts, and so, they hardly ever got paid anything. The University of Texas system is still that way. The state of Texas agencies are still that way. And so, what we decided to do was do a market study and we, a lot of employees got up to thirty percent raises and/or more depending on what field they were in and how underpaid they were because of that old philosophy. And, so we've, that's going to cost us seven million dollars and we're implementing it. We are going to do it. We were losing a lot of employees and we were having a real hard time recruiting people to Travis County especially minorities. I mean, other states paid them better than we were paying, you know, than we pay and, and so we are implementing that. And we are going to bite the bullet and, and do

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it. And that way we can recruit more minorities to Travis County. And, so that's going to cost us some more, some more money. Then we have a 911 system that's really something that our constituents want access to. So that in case they need the EMS service wherever they are, then they can get it. And, and, so we can save lives that way. So, it's, it's just, those are very, they are bread and butter issues. It's nothing sexy or fun, you know. Extraordinarily fun, you know. They are just basic things that, that human beings need wherever they are. And, so that's going to cost us. Those are the three goals that we've set for ourselves and, and I think we can do it without, without raising taxes.
Dr. Gutiérrez: You have a county engineer? You are not involved with running road and bridge department?
Commissioner Gómez: No, we don't have a county engineer. We have a unit road system
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: that now has several engineers working in the transportation and natural resources which is the unit road system. And, so it works to a point in that it cuts out duplication. It does not work in that attention goes to where, you know, there's a lot of development going on. And, and in our particular case there isn't a whole lot going on in Eastern Travis County. The excuse is that it's because of the clay soils, that they, they expand when it rains, they shrink when it's dry, and then it shifts. And, so but, the other thing is, you know, frankly speaking, that's where minorities live. In the Eastern part of, east of I-35 is East Austin and Eastern Travis County. I think people like to live in, in the western part. Of course, that's where our drinking water is. The Edward's Aquifer. And it's a very sensitive area, but that's where people want to build. And I think that's the big fight here in Austin in-between developers and environmentalists for a long time that they were affecting our drinking water by building over there. But that's

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where they want to live. Why don't they want to live over here on this side? And some of the developers have said, "Well, it's very expensive to, to build over- there because of the soils." You know. They, they shrink and expand and shift. But, you kind of say, you know, Juan Cotera and Maria Cotera were in one of these meetings when this came up. And Juan said, "You have to challenge that. That's not necessarily true. You can build knowing what the clay soils are like except that you can't sell the house, build and sell the houses for as much money as you can over on that side and make the profit that you make over on that side.". And so, so what we do with eastern Travis County is we build our airport over there. We build the jails over there. We build the, that's where we put the landfills and probably with the landfills it doesn't matter as much that it, it expands and shrinks or shifts, but wouldn't it matter with the airport? What if one of the runways shifts? I mean, isn't that going to cause a wreck, you know?
Dr. Gutiérrez: Slide into home base.
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. I mean, what kind of problem does that cause? And are we worried about that shift, you know. That shrinking and, and expanding and shifting? And, so it's, it's a very interesting thing to me that, that I think we need to think structurally and it's one of the challenges that I think the commissioner's court has right now and so does the city council. And the city council right now has moved to the bond elections. They want to put more amenities in terms of greenspace, parks, and that kind of thing that western Austin has. And hopefully that sort of thing will be a magnet for developers to build a little bit more if there is green space, water, and, and green parks and you know, recreational facilities like Little League, like soccer, you know. And, so maybe we can make that shift structurally.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: Margaret, you've been in government now about twenty five years, seventeen or eighteen of that as an elected official and you are looking at a few more. What's next for Margaret Gómez?
Commissioner Gómez: I, I want to continue being in public service I, I think and then I'd like to really concentrate on, on making, having an impact on this structure business. Because not everybody can live in western Travis County. Not everybody wants to. But I think that, that, that this county and this city need to realize sooner or later that we need to be where people are. We need to go where people are. People on this side pay the taxes just as much as the people on this side. And, and, so you know, how can we do anything without that tax base? And the appraisals are going up everywhere in Travis County because it's such a healthy economy. But I think we are going to have to think a little more strategically about the, the infrastructure.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Well, I'm going to leave this area unless you want to talk about something specifically in here any time and ask you now issues and opinions.
Commissioner Gómez: Uh huh.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Do you belong to any civil rights organizations that are Mexican-American?
Commissioner Gómez: I haven't, only because of a lack of time.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK.
Commissioner Gómez: But I, but I know what MALDEF does from time to time. It's one of the groups that I'm, I'm aware of, but I don't have the membership.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Which is the most effective Mexican-American organization in your opinion?
Commissioner Gómez: Oh gosh. Probably I would have to say MALDEF because they attack the structure of, of society.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. OK. Who is the most effective Mexican-American leader today?
Commissioner Gómez: Ernie Cortez.

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Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Black/Brown relations. What are the underpinnings of tension between Blacks and Browns that you are aware of?
Commissioner Gómez: I think they are going to be, I think they've been fairly equal to now, up to now. I think they are probably, as 1999 comes around. I think there may be a little bit of a shift. And I'm just guessing, I'm just guessing, I would hope that, that we could work together more. But then I always hope that the Mexican-American community could work better together. I've always wanted that. I've always wondered why, you know, sometimes it appears like it didn't. And, and that's always concerned me because... And I guess that's one of the reasons I've stepped back somewhat because I don't want to get in there. And, and fight, you know, against any Mexican-American leader. I, I just don't think that serves me and it doesn't serve us well. And, for that same reason, I would hope that the, that the Blacks and, and Mexican-Americans can, can work, can start working together more on those things in which we have in common and that is the, the lack of power and the lack of, of ability to really strike at the infrastructure that needs to be changed. Because I think, I think we've, a lot of time has gone by, a lot of effort, a lot of energy. And, and somehow the structures remained the same. And if those structures don't change. It's kind of like, you know, are we going, are we being chaotic, you know, in our efforts and energies.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Chicano/Mexicano (Mexican) relations. What are the underpinnings of those tensions?
Commissioner Gómez: Those are, I think they are getting a lot better because the, the Tejanos (Texans) or Mexican-Americans have understood a little better of why Mexicanos(Mexicans) came here in the first place. And then I have a lot of empathy for it because my own dad can tell me about the experiences of why they, they came here. It wasn't because, you know, they were going to strike it rich right away, you know. It

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wasn't because the, the, the streets here are paved in gold. It, it isn't that. It wasn't because they were thinking of taking the job from somebody else. It was, certainly wasn't because they wanted to come marry a Texan, you know. An Americano (American), American, or whatever. It was, it was to, for survival. And, and I think that early on, some years back, I did hear from some of the people that I admired, you know. That they were coming here to take our jobs and you know. And it, and it really hurt, you know. And I think one, one of those things for me was one of the reasons I, I kind of, you know, moved back a little bit because I don't want to get into it about that. I, I, I don't believe it. And, and, so I don't want to get into it. So because if you get into it then that, that wound will last forever and then you never, you never are able to heal it. So you know. Maybe it's wrong for me to move back, but I still not get into it.
Dr. Gutiérrez: What is the most pressing issue facing Mexican-Americans today?
Commissioner Gómez: I think, I think it's education. And then because if. .. I think with, it's not guaranteed. But I think if we really have knowledge about, about situations in, in this country and what the American dream really means. And that we can con. . . that we would be able to interpret it for ourselves a lot better. And, and, and show why there needs to be... that we will have disagreements, but that we can agree to disagree. But we can still work together.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Second to the last question. What is leadership?
Commissioner Gómez: That is really tough. I think leadership is, I think being able to interpret for people what is. What we have at our disposal to work with as Americans so that we can apply those things to our own lives and in our own, in our own time, in our own way, in, in a way that, that's comfortable to us. I don't know that, it's just so difficult to say. Golly. Because I certainly don't expect everybody to follow me and do everything the way I did it, you know. And, and I don't expect that

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at all. But, but I also expect to learn from somebody who grew up differently from me, who had different experiences. I expect to learn. And I, and I guess in that way it's like following somebody. And, so, but I think most of all, I think from my own experience been, if somebody wants to consider me a leader, then I think I need to, I need to be honest with them. I need to make sure that I don't take anything from them. That I don't mistreat them, that I don't steal from them. Anything.
Dr. Gutiérrez: OK. Last question. I don't have anymore.
Commissioner Gómez: OK.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Do you have anything to say? Do, do you...
Commissioner Gómez: I have loads of questions, but....
Dr. Gutiérrez: have a comment about anything that we left off or something that you didn't quite finish because I may have interrupted you or took you off in a different direction?
Commissioner Gómez: No, I think it's pretty much, you know, we covered pretty much everything. And I think I'm a very good listener and going back to maybe about the...
Dr. Gutiérrez: ... to the leadership question.
Commissioner Gómez: Mexican-American women.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Oh women?
Commissioner Gómez: Yeah. And Mexican men and the women and it's leadership to. And I guess how some people would interpret that leadership. I think, I think women listen pretty well, listen effectively. And, and I think we, once we hear what people have said. I think we, we think about it. We go away, and we think about it and then we, we call each other up later and say, "You know, I just had another thought about, you know, something you know, and what do you think?" And, and at least I think when some people have a question about, you know, something that they, they have before the court. And they call and say, "Well you

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know, OK. Let, give me a few days and let me think about it." "And, and I'll call you back." And, and sure enough, you know, some, some thought will come to me about is this. This is what I recommend that you do in order to get your ducks in a row. And then, when you make a presentation, you know. And, and these are the people that you bring, these are the people that you talk to. And, and, so that it, you know, I think that's part of what we do. But I think we do that in, in our families as well, you know, when members of the family bring a problem to you and you know, you listen. At least that was my experience with my mother, you know. And, you know, you kind of bring the problem home and they listen to you and OK. And then after a few days, they say, you know, you remember you mentioned such and such. And, and, and esto se me ocurrio (this occured to me). This occurred to me that, you know, maybe if you did this and this. So you know, that to me is, is part of leadership too. And, and I think that's, I think that's the way most of the women take on their leadership roles in the family. And, and in a way the whole Mexican-American community is a family. And in a way the whole community is family if it works right. If it works the way it's supposed to work. And all the pieces fall into place. And, and the different roles are taken and, and, and gone back and forth. And communication, it takes place.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Any other words Commissioner?
Commissioner Gómez: That's all I have.
Dr. Gutiérrez: Well, I thank you very much for giving me so much time and then coming, especially to meet me on a Saturday afternoon. I'm sure that you've got a lot of other things to do. So, thank you again and we'll be in touch when this is done and we're going to present it so maybe you can join us....
Commissioner Gómez: OK. This has been a lot of fun.
Dr. Gutiérrez: .....at UT Arlington.

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Commissioner Gómez: Thank you for inviting me.
Dr. Gutiérrez: And you are going to get a copy. You know that?
Commissioner Gómez: OK. Thank you.
Dr. Gutiérrez: All right. Thank you.
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