Maverick Veterans’ Voices: Interview with Brigadier General Lester Simpson

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Interviewee: BG Lester Simpson

Interviewer: Melissa Gonzales

Date of Interview: April 29, 2013

Location of Interview: Arlington, Texas

Transcriber: Diane Saylors

Special Collections UTA Libraries

GONZALES: This is Melissa Gonzales. Today is Monday, April 29, 2013. I am interviewing BG Lester Simpson for the first time. This interview is taking place at the University of Texas at Arlington Central Library located in Arlington, Texas. This interview is sponsored by the College of Liberal Arts and is part of the Maverick Veterans' Voices Project.

GONZALES: So, General Simpson, where are you from originally?

SIMPSON: Originally, I grew up in Killeen, Texas. I graduated from Killeen High School, and while I was there I was in the ROTC program and went to a drill 00:01:00competition one day and there were these guys that were just amazing. They called themselves the Jodies or the Sam Houston Rifles. And I looked at them and I said, "You know what? I want to be a Sam Houston Rifle." So they had a summer encampment every year where they'd bring high school students up and they'd learn different things, techniques about drilling, and I came up and I just fell in love with the campus and decided to come to UTA and get my education and hopefully my military commission.

GONZALES: What was your major while you attended UTA?

SIMPSON: I started off as Business Administration, and since my parents couldn't afford to send me to school and I couldn't get a scholarship, I had to work through school, so it took me a while to get everything through, and I ended up changing to General Studies and graduated in '83.

GONZALES: So you said you worked through college. What did you do?

SIMPSON: I had several jobs. My first job was I worked for UPS. A lot of the guys that were in the ROTC department worked out at UPS, and it was a great job really. You worked Sunday through Thursday. It was on the midnight shift, so you worked from 10 p.m. to 2 a.m. You got paid every Thursday, and you had Friday and Saturday off. I mean, it was great. I was partying every weekend with my friends, never had to worry about missing work or missing anything that was going on. And it was a very good job. And then I had a work-study job working at the gym, which was great because in the evenings I could play racquetball after the gym closed. And then a couple of years later, I started working at Taco Casa just right up off the south forty there. (laughs) And if it hadn't been for Taco Casa, I would've starved.

GONZALES: So did you live on-campus at the time?

SIMPSON: No, I lived off-campus. There was a little apartment complex--and it's still there--it's called the Alpha Delta Apartments. It was right next to--there was a girl's college right next to it was called Bonner College, and so it was a great place to live because you'd stand out there like you were out fishing and hopefully, you'd catch a hook or something. But, no, it was really a great place to live. It was very close to campus. And the rent wasn't too bad at the time.

GONZALES: Were there any campus traditions you participated in other than the Sam Houston Rifles?

SIMPSON: Well, not really. I mean, you know, at the time when I started at UTA, we had a football team, and of course, they always had the pep rallies and they had the bonfires, and you'd go over to the Student Center and go downstairs in the basement and hit the club scene. Those types of things and there were different activities that would go on that I would attend, but most of my 00:04:00activity was centered around ROTC and the Sam Houston Rifles.

GONZALES: What did that entail?

SIMPSON: Well, my freshman year, you're called a recruit, and so you were-- it's not really hazing, but there's a lot of things that you're expected to do and a lot of traditions, and you have to memorize a lot of stuff. And it was just a lot of fun, you know, that I think it was the camaraderie of different like-minded individuals who wanted a military career and tried to learn more about discipline and all the things that the military culture gives you. And so really, it was a lot of different things, and there were some fun times too.

GONZALES: Were there any professors or instructors who significantly influenced you?

SIMPSON: There were a couple, and when I was thinking back on trying to remember 00:05:00some of the names, I've got some of that senioritis right now. (laughs) There was a poli-science professor--and I cannot remember his name for the life of me, but I could see him just as clear as day. Great, great, great teacher, and really got me excited about learning and all that stuff there. Hopefully, by the end of the interview, I'll remember his name.

GONZALES: So while you were working, were you working full- or part-time at UPS and your other jobs?

SIMPSON: I was working part-time at UPS, part-time at Taco Casa, and then going to school, and I learned the hard way. My first year I was all excited, I took eighteen hours, and, wow! I'll never ever do that again. (laughs) But the thing about UPS is if I didn't sleep through classes, it was great. And then I learned 00:06:00don't take any eight o'clock classes. Take later classes and spread your time out because you have plenty of time to go to class and get your studies done and then, you know, with the Sam Houston Rifles, we practiced two hours a day three days a week, and so I spent a lot of time. And then, of course, you had the labs that you had to go to and different other activities.

GONZALES: When did you graduate from UTA?

SIMPSON: I graduated in December of 1983. I was supposed to graduate in May, and I fell short on a few credits because I didn't get the best grade in one or two classes, and that cost me because back then they had what they called an RA 00:07:00Commission, a Regular Army Commission. You have the regular Army and then you have Reserves, and at that time I was considered a Distinguished Military Student and was going to be a Distinguished Military Graduate, had gotten my first choice on my options page, and was given an RA Commission, and I already had my assignment. I was going to be going to Germany. I mean, it was going to be great because as a kid I lived in Germany for six years. My father was military and my older brother, and so I was really excited about that. And then I got the bad news that I wasn't going to graduate on time, and of course, I lost that RA. And I did that other semester and graduated in December and decided that I'd continue my commission in the Army National Guard, and at the same time work at UPS because by that time I had gone full-time as a delivery driver and was making some pretty good money. And I said, "You know what? You could have two careers and still be young enough to have a retirement from 00:08:00both," and so I think it all worked out for the best.

GONZALES: What were your responsibilities for the National Guard?

SIMPSON: When I started in the National Guard, I was a lieutenant. I got commissioned through ROTC program here. I was a platoon leader, and basically, I had thirty-something soldiers that were assigned to my platoon and my responsibility was the leadership of those individuals, whether it be training, mentoring, coaching, or whatever.

At that time, I didn't do a lot of mentoring and coaching because I was being mentored and coached myself, but I came from a military family, so I understood the military culture and I understood what it takes to be successful because that was drilled into me through the Sam Houston Rifles and the discipline. And so I fell back on those things that I learned through high school ROTC and college ROTC.

And UPS is a people-oriented business, and so the things I learned in the 00:09:00military, I was using at UPS because I'm dealing with personalities and all it is managing personalities and managing resources and managing priorities. And I learned those skills in the military. And the things I learned at UPS, I used in my military career as well because as a person in the military, I managed the application of violence based on the goals of the political elite. Bottom line: I managed resources, I managed personalities, and when you learn how to do that, then you can get your mission accomplished. And, hopefully, I've been successful at that.

GONZALES: Were you sent anywhere else for additional training or for boot camp?

SIMPSON: Yes. In ROTC your first year after you get your commission, you go to what's called Officer Basic Course, and since I was an infantry officer, I went 00:10:00to Fort Benning, Georgia. It's a sixteen-week course, and you learn the basics about leadership. Not everybody has the ability to go to high school ROTC and learn anything about leadership and stuff like that, so when you get there, it's just like you didn't know anything and they start from the basics. Well, since I'd had four years of high school ROTC and then four years of college ROTC and came from a military family, I was kind of heads and shoulders above a lot of my peers, and I was immediately placed in leadership roles.

And of course, you always want to do good because at the time they had a program called the Commandant's List. If you made it and you were in the top of your class and you were on the Commandant's List, they would automatically offer you an active duty position. And so since I didn't graduate on time, I went to my 00:11:00basic, then came back and did that other semester of college, and it was my hope that I would go and out-perform everybody, get on the Commandant's List and they would offer me that active duty commission, and then I could salvage not being able to graduate on time. But it turns out the Army at the time had changed and now you could not go on active duty unless you actually had your degree. Because before, you didn't have to have the degree, and people were working on getting their degrees, and they never finished them, and they have a lot of officers with no degrees, and so they ended up losing their commissions. So, like I said, it all worked out for the best for me because I think had I gone active duty, (1) I wouldn't have had two careers, and I don't think I would've risen to the rank that I am now.

GONZALES: So you said you came from a military background. Was it a goal of yours to be a career military personnel?

SIMPSON: Well, not at first. You know, my father told me, "Hey, son, if you ever join the military, I'll disown you." (laughs) Because, you know, there's good days and there's bad days, and I watched my mom and dad struggle, and at the time race relations weren't what they are today, and being in the military there's a lot of minorities and African Americans specifically. But there weren't a whole lot that were in leadership positions, and I saw that as a challenge, and I saw it as a way of me having a better life, and I wanted to be that person that could be there to make changes. And so I did everything that I could to learn as much as I could and to try to excel, and I think I did.

GONZALES: So you mentioned discrimination. How did you manage that while you were in the middle of it?

SIMPSON: Well, I learned very, very early in my career that in order to get recognized, you have to outperform everybody else. You know, the figures speak for themselves. You cannot--you cannot change the figures. If you've got the best numbers and you are meeting all of the expectations and the goals above your peers, then they can't help but give you what you deserve. Yeah, you got to work really hard but it's worth it, and that's the attitude I took is that I'm going to have to work twice as hard if I want to get the same recognition as my peers. And I did that.

GONZALES: Where were you sent after Fort Benning?

SIMPSON: Well, since I wasn't on active duty and I was National Guard, at the end of that sixteen weeks, I came back to Texas. My first unit assignment was in 00:14:00Greenville, Texas. I was platoon leader, and then I got transferred after a couple of years out to Sulphur Springs, and I was a platoon leader out there. Then I became a company XO and was transferred out to Texarkana, all the while I'm getting further and further away from home. I mean, it was like a five-hour drive just to get to drill, which in itself was kind of a blessing because that means a normal drill is a Saturday and Sunday. Well, I'd have to get there on Friday, which would give me time to sit down and go over everything that was going to happen that week and prepare myself, and it was actually a blessing. I think if I'd have been closer in, the normal tendency would be to get up Saturday morning an hour before you're supposed to be there, and then just show up and really not know what's going on. So having to get there the night before really gave me the opportunity to prepare myself and get ready for it.

And I was out in Texarkana for five years, and then I got picked up as a battalion XO and the battalion headquarters was in Terrell, Texas. So I did that job for several years, and then I became the battalion commander. And I was the first African American battalion commander. I was the first African American general officer to lead Texas National Guard soldiers in combat. And I don't like to play that part up because I see myself as a person and not an African American, but I think it's very important because it paves the way for the younger generation and those coming behind us can look and see, hey, he was able to do it and he had a lot of challenges, so I should be able to do it because things aren't as challenging today as they were when it relates to race relations.

And I think another area that I think helped me a lot is I got picked up as a job as the Equal Opportunity advisor for the division, and they sent me out to Patrick Air Force Base in Florida, a school called DEOMI, Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute. And I learned a lot at that school about sexual harassment, about prevention of discrimination, what actually is discrimination and a lot of different things. And then my job for two and a half years was to go and evaluate and advise the commanders on situations and answer discrimination complaints. And I learned a lot about myself and then I learned about the National Guard as a whole and how things work, and I think that helped me.

GONZALES: So you said you were doing Guard duties over the weekends. What was the transition from the civilian week to the military weekend?

SIMPSON: Well, you know, I worked Monday through Friday, so I always had weekends off. And at the time, the National Guard for the first twenty years of my career--and I was commissioned in 1980--and so until 2000, the National Guard was a strategic reserve. They basically-- all they did was train one weekend in a month and then went to summer camp for annual training, which was usually down at Fort Hood, for two weeks. So that's really all you did. There weren't a lot of natural disasters going on where we were being called up or anything like that.

And then in 1999, a decision was made that because we had a lot of things going on in the Balkans that they would activate mobilizing National Guard 00:18:00headquarters and train them on how to do that mission and send them to the Balkans to manage that so that the active Army could then focus on other areas. Well, the 49th Armored Division was the division that was selected to do that mission, and at the time I was a major and I was the Secretary to General Staff, which basically I managed the general officers' calendars, their schedules, and everything they did. And so we spent that whole year in 1999 training up for that mission, and it was multinational because we had soldiers from Russia, we had soldiers from Turkey, we had soldiers--they call it the North Pole Brigade. They were Norwegian, they were Polish, they were Swedish, all of the Scandinavian countries together. So it was multinational, and it was a peacekeeping mission. So it was very important.

And so we went to Bosnia in 2000, and the headquarters did a really good job, made history, and I was hooked. I was, like, wow! You know, this is really something, and I got to see some things that I had never seen before, and I wish every American could get a chance to go to a Third World country and see the poverty and see how they live, and this country had just gone through this terrible ethnic cleansing, you know, you have Croats and you have Muslims and Serbs, and houses blown up. You'd walk through neighborhoods and there'd be a house in pristine condition and the house next door is just blown to bits. Well, this guy was a Serb and this guy was a Muslim. And it was terrible. And we went through that. And since the division did such a great job, the powers that be started thinking, hey, you know what? Instead of the National Guard being a 00:20:00strategic reserve, we need to make them an operational force because our active-duty forces are being utilized so much that people are getting out left and right because they're just doing multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple deployments.

Well, since 2000, I have deployed four times, and everyone has been right at three years apart, 2000, 2003, 2006, and then 2010 I went to Afghanistan. And the National Guard--believe it or not--has had a legacy of very strong performance in those units that have taken on those missions, especially in Iraq and Afghanistan and in Kosovo, and have done a great job, and we've got a lot of combat experience and we're not ready to go back to a secondary role as a strategic reserve.

I think we need to stay an operational force because (1) the National Guard is 00:21:00value-added. They're citizen-soldiers, they have civilian acquired skill sets that in a lot of avenues when you look at are maybe better qualified than some of our active duty counterparts because they do this job every single day when it comes to peace enforcement or peacekeeping or nation-building, those kinds of things because those are the skill sets that we bring to the table. We also have the ability off in the combat roles, but I think that was the thing that started the deployments that are going on now that led up to Afghanistan and Iraq and the Sinai and some of the others.

GONZALES: Prior to deployments to the Balkans and subsequent deployments, did you have any cultural training to prepare you?

SIMPSON: Yes. Yes. And one of the things that I learned at the DEOMI was about aspects of culture, and so I was really intrigued about it. They sent us out to 00:22:00California. There's a school out there called the LDESP, the Leadership--I can't remember the acronym, but that's the thing about military--but anyway, it's at the Naval Postgraduate School, and they teach you all the aspects about culture and how different things are in the Balkans, how different things were in Afghanistan and Iraq because, you know, as you grow up, you understand American culture and you look through things through different lenses. Well, as they grew up, they looked at things through their cultural lenses, and they don't necessarily think the same way that we do. And so you have to understand how culture plays that role if you want to get anything done.

And I really enjoyed going to that school and learning those things and then went to the Balkans and was able to practice that. And then when my brigade was mobilized Afghanistan, we pretty much got the same thing except it was focused on the Muslim religion and the community and where we were going to be operating and those types of cultural things. And it came in really handy because as the commander, I was doing a lot of what they call shuras. That's where you would go into the local community and you have the local elders in the tribe and you're sitting down with them, you're having dinner with them, and you're eating things that you probably would never ever eat (laughs) had you not been there, but it would be offensive if you didn't eat it. And you learn more about the culture.

As Americans when we go visit somebody, we want to get right down to business. Well, in their culture, you might have two or three meetings before you actually 00:24:00start talking about business. It's all about family and friends and getting to know you and so that puts enormous pressure on you because you're in a timeframe to get things done, but you can't just jump right in there. So it was a good learning experience.

GONZALES: I imagine it has a lot to do with building trust as well.

SIMPSON: Trust and confidence. And you got to look at it from their perspective. And I'm talking Afghanistan now--is that there were a lot of things that were going on. The Soviets came in and they were there for an extended period of time. There was a lot of fighting going on, and then the Soviets left, then they went into a civil war, and then the U.S. and we went in. So you have a generation of children that are thirty years old and know nothing but war and 00:25:00what it takes to survive in a war. So they're not very trustworthy of people that come in and say we're here to help. You've got to prove you're here to help. So that school really helped you understand the cultural dynamics that you're faced with along with the economical and social and everything else.

GONZALES: When did you first see combat?

SIMPSON: My brigade headquarters was mobilized in July of 2010. And we got into theater towards the early part of August, and we weren't on the ground two weeks before we were attacked.

And I'll never forget it because we were there and we weren't really quiet I 00:26:00sure because they have what is called the look-see lights you ride where the unit that you're replacing--they're in the seating. You're shadowing them and watching what they're doing and figuring out all the processes. And then on the second week, you're in the seat and you're making the decisions, and they're looking over your shoulder to make sure that nothing goes wrong. (laughs)

So we had just got there and the base camp comes under fire, sirens are going off, people are scrambling to get to the bunkers, and I'm looking at my soldiers and they're freaking out because we went through this training and it's different when it's training because you know and you say in the back of your mind that, oh, this is only training to get out of here. I'm not going to get injured. But when things are exploding around you and people are--there's just so much chaos, it became very, very real, real quick, and I think that was probably one of the better exercises that could've happened to us early on in 00:27:00our deployment because it let everybody know that, hey, this is not annual training, it's not summer camp, it's not even the Balkans because when we were in the Balkans, nobody was shooting at us. The hostilities had ceased, the active-duty turned it over to the guard to maintain the peace. And, zap, this was real. And it opened up a lot of people's eyes.

GONZALES: So you mentioned how training was different. Do you feel that the training was adequate, that it prepared you for it ultimately?

SIMPSON: Oh, absolutely! One thing about the guard, when guard units are mobilized, called up, a year before they're actually going to be mobilized, they get a notice of sourcing which basically says that you're on for this deployment and you're going to go to this location. And so there's a whole laundry list of 00:28:00things that you have to be trained up on before you get there. And you go to a MO Platform. For us, we went up to Fort McCoy, Wisconsin, and they have a schedule of different exercises that they plan to prepare you, and every one of these exercises that you go through are based off of real-world situations, where they've done AARs, After Action Reviews, and figured out exactly what should have happened and then they put you through these exercises. And so you learn that if this happens, this is the thing that you need to do. And of course, there's the military decision-making process where you analyze everything that's going on and you come up with the best courses of actions you can to meet the commander's intent.

And so every single exercise that we did, we saw in theater within the first six 00:29:00months of us being on the ground. Every single one of them. To include one of the exercises they had was a mass casualty exercise where we had taken casualties and we had to perform a memorial service and do all of those things that are entailed in it. Within my brigade, we lost twenty soldiers, twenty great Americans, young kids from the age of nineteen up to thirty-five. I commanded an engineer brigade who--our mission was--I had both combat and construction. The combat side, those guys were going and running up and down the roads every day looking for IEDs, Improvised Explosive Devices, and deactivating them. I lost twenty soldiers and we had twenty memorial services. I had wrote letters to those families.

And I learned this from Gen. Campbell, who was Commander of the 101st. They lost 00:30:00205 soldiers during that period. That was the most kinetic period of fighting in Afghanistan. And he would carry a three-by-five card that would have the soldier's name and picture and just details about how that soldier died.

So I started doing that and I carried that in my right pocket just to remind me and even today I keep a little calendar that shows the names of each of the soldiers and a little biographical summary about them because most people don't understand freedom is not free. Somebody is paying for it, whether it be a National Guard soldier who's deploying away from their family for a year to go abroad or even at home or, you know, it'd be an active-duty soldier or somebody is paying for the rights that we have, and it brought a whole new meaning to me 00:31:00when Memorial Day came around and the Fourth of July came around. It wasn't just another day where I could go and sit back and have a picnic or whatever. I really truly understood what it meant.

GONZALES: It seems like there was--since you were working with the guard in a peacekeeping capacity prior to Afghanistan, I imagine the stressors were quite different going from that background into Afghanistan. How did you manage that?

SIMPSON: The stressors were there. The thing about--and I don't want to offend anybody--but there is a stigma attached to the National Guard. There are a lot of active-duty soldiers that believe because you're the National Guard and you only train one weekend a month, two weeks out of the summer, that you're not 00:32:00competent at what you do. Because they do it 365 days a year, they believe that they're the only ones that could do that job.

And so the biggest problem that I had as the commander--and my job was to build relationships with the active-duty units--because I not only had active duty units, I had Army, Air Force, and Navy engineers assigned to my brigade. I had active duty soldiers assigned to my brigade. I had National Guard soldiers assigned to my brigade from all over the States--different states--and I had U.S. Army Reserve personnel, so it was truly a team of teams, and the stress that was placed on me, mainly by myself, was making sure that I built the relationships with those organizations that we were going to be supporting, that they understood that we are competent in our job and that we could do whatever 00:33:00we promised that we would do.

And since knowing, for instance, on the combat side, if we didn't do a good job going out clearing the IEDs, somebody was going to get blown up, somebody was going to die, whether it be a coalition force member or an Army guy or Afghan partners or an Afghan citizen, somebody was going to die. And so there was a lot of pressure that we put on ourselves to do a great job in that area, and we really did a great job, in my opinion.

On the construction side, everybody heard about the surge. Well, Afghanistan is not Iraq. There are just no facilities. The infrastructure is just not there. So when we came in, the first thing we had to do was build the infrastructure so that the surge personnel coming in would have a place to live and then would have all of the things that they needed, you know, dining hall facilities, gyms, 00:34:00billeting facilities, all of those things. So we had to build that, and there was a timeline because the surge was going to start. So we had to get all that built, and it had to be built to a certain standard, and there weren't a lot of a construction capability in Afghanistan that could build things to our standards. So we were really working hard to get that done. Once we got the facilities built, we were going into the winter months, so we had to do winterization because all of these B huts and C huts that we were building were made out of plywood, and I don't know if you've ever been to Afghanistan, but it gets pretty cold. You would think in a desert that it wouldn't get that cold, but I mean, it got really, really cold, and we got a lot of snow. We were up in the mountains, eighty-five hundred foot elevation, and so we had a lot to do.

And then once we did the winterization, then we had the life health safety 00:35:00issues because there's always something going on with the electrical, so we were constantly busy, and then of course, like I said, the IED--going out every day. You go out today and destroy ten IEDs and come back tomorrow morning and there's fifteen planted overnight.

GONZALES: You mentioned building relationships with other units. Was there anything in particular that you used, any techniques?

SIMPSON: Yeah. First of all, you got to get to know them. And like I said, in Afghanistan when we first got there, they did not have any engineer units. They were busy turning out infantry units and putting them into the fight.

We recognized very early on that in order for the U.S. to get out of Afghanistan 00:36:00and turn over that to the country, they had to have the capability to do it. So we took it upon ourselves to start working and partnering with Afghan Army soldiers and teaching them engineering skills on the combat side, and then we went one step further and we built--we called it the CEE or Center for Education Excellence. It was the governor of Paktika Province, it was one of his projects. Basically, what we did is we hired Afghan local contractors and then we did like a train the trainer. We trained them on the techniques and skills. They brought in Afghan citizens, went through the course of training being taught by these Afghan contractors, and then being overseen by us to make sure that they were teaching the right methods and so on. Then when these students graduated, they 00:37:00would get a certificate and the local contractors would then hire those students and then when we let contracts out to these companies, we knew that they had a competent workforce and that they could get the job done to the level of our standards and our level of satisfaction. And so it was a win-win situation for the Afghan citizens because they got employment, and they were able to build their own capacity, and then we were able to meet the goals of the international joint force and ISAP.

GONZALES: What were some of your more memorable experiences?

SIMPSON: I had a couple. We had an opportunity to build an orphanage in the town of Sharana. And we went out there and when we got that thing built, just seeing the smiles on those kids' faces, and I'm telling you, we'd show up and these 00:38:00kids would just come from everywhere, and of course, they loved candy because that's a commodity that they just don't get. And we would give out stuff and we had a lot of organizations back in the States that were sending us stuff.

Churches just sent us so much stuff. I mean, you know, writing utensils and pens and pencils and balls. And they loved to play soccer. And so when we would go out to these local villages, we would hand that stuff out to the kids, but of course, you know, we'd ask permission from the town elder. Because you got to be careful because a lot of times you'd go and visit a village and you'd hand out all this stuff when you leave and then that night the Taliban comes in and anybody who has got all this stuff is in danger. So you have to be very careful.

But you know, after that orphanage was built, just seeing the kids, knowing that 00:39:00now they have a secure place to live and that we did something that helped the community, that was one. I told you we did the partnering with the Afghan National Army soldiers, their engineers. By the time we left Afghanistan, they were doing independent IED--counter-IED operations using their own equipment and using techniques that we taught them and were doing very well at it. Then on the construction side, they had done some horizontal projects where they went in and refurbished a couple of roads and really makes you feel good knowing that you've helped somebody. They did a good job of it.

GONZALES: Were you able to do anything for entertainment?

SIMPSON: Yes and no. For me, since I was the commander, and very few general officers in theater, the 101st Division was at Bagram Air Base, and of course, Gen. Campbell had his Assistant Division Commanders, so there were two general officers there. On the base camp, where I am, I was the only general officer, and I had a ten-man PS, Personal Security attachment, who followed me everywhere I went. I tried hard to shake those guys. So it was very difficult for me to go and let my hair down because they'd have USO shows and stuff like that, and the soldiers are there, and you're the commander. So you can't go and be out on the dance floor doing the "stanky leg" with one of your soldiers. You know what I mean? So you have to keep that level of separation.

But what I was able to do is I played a lot of sports. I lifted weights. We had 00:41:00volleyball games where we challenged each other. We played softball and things like that--of that nature. I went to a couple of dances. They had a couple of dances and I mainly just showed up to show my support and be there to greet some of the soldiers. We had a visit from the Washington Redskins Cheerleaders, and I'll never forget that one because that was a great show.(laughs) There was one instance where they pulled me up on stage and I had five cheerleaders dancing around me and all things, and I was, like, really embarrassed. I hope my wife doesn't see this. But I had a great time and really got to meet them, and a lot of those organizations that sent us those gifts that we talked about was based 00:42:00off of some of the things that the Washington Cheerleaders did getting us connected to those companies.

The Super Bowl party, we had it. I decided that I wanted to have a Super Bowl party. So we had it in our mess hall. And you remember back in the day, they had the old football pots where you paid a dollar for square, and you put your name on a square and you paid your money. First of all, we didn't charge any money, but we had all of these electronic gifts. They sent us X-Box 360s, Play Stations, Wiis, little DVD players, all of this stuff was donated to us. The Washington Cheerleaders, we had the Tennessee Titans, Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders, they all sent us cheerleader calendars and footballs and all kinds of stuff. So what we did is we made this little pot and we had four areas of the mess hall set up. One was called the End Zone, one was called the Fifty-Yard-Line, one was called the Bleacher Seats Nosebleed Section, and then the VIP Section. Based off of where you were sitting, the prizes were much 00:43:00better. If your numbers hit at the end of the quarter, you won that large prize, and then we had little things underneath the seats that throughout the game we would be giving away prizes. And we gave away everything that was donated to us. The soldiers had a great time and it was a great event, great event.

GONZALES: Were you able to go on leave while you were over there?

SIMPSON: Yes. When we were there--now they've changed the policy, but then you were authorized fifteen days leave and it was non- chargeable. So I came back to Rowlett, picked up my wife and my daughter and my mother-in-law, and we flew to Hawaii to Oahu. When we got there we checked in to the hotel. They put us up 00:44:00into the penthouse suite because they found out that I was on leave from Afghanistan, so they comped us the suite, and it overlooked the ocean. Every morning we would sit on the balcony and watch the sun come up. I mean, it was just beautiful. And Honolulu, we went all through the sights and the Dole Plantation and went out to Brigham Young to the Polynesian Culture Center and just had a great time. And I'm sitting there, and the first day it was kind of hard to kind of get into things because, (1) Afghanistan is nine and a half hours difference, so you got the jetlag. But then I'm saying to myself, you know, yesterday I was receiving fire from the enemy and today I'm sucking on pina colada at Hale Koa. (laughs)

No, we did go on leave and we had a great time. And when I did my deployment to Bosnia in 2006, I took leave and my oldest son--actually, my oldest son and my 00:45:00youngest son were at Manheim, and we went to France. We toured all through Europe and ended up in France and went to Paris and saw all the sights there. And we went to Normandy and walked the beaches of Juno and Gold and then went to the cemetery, and I tell you, it was an awesome, awesome adventure. I would've never been able to do that had it not been for the military. Because when you go on leave, you get on the freedom flight and they fly you and you land at the airport and then once you get back to the States, what you do from there is on your dime. So, that was pretty cool.

GONZALES: You mentioned the transition from Afghanistan to Hawaii, I think, when you were on leave.

SIMPSON: Um-hmm.

GONZALES: Did you do anything mentally to prepare yourself when you went back?

SIMPSON: Well, not really--I mean, you know, I knew as we were getting closer and closer to the date that my leave was coming up, I knew that I was going to have to get back into the swing of things. I would periodically get emails from my deputy commander, Col. Juneau, just to kind of keep me abreast of what's going on, if there were any significant issues that I needed to be aware of. And, fortunately for me, at the time when I took leave, there was not much going on, so I didn't have a lot to come back into. But I knew that you know, two days from now I'm going to be back into the game and I've got to put my game face on and not be thinking about what I did on vacation.

GONZALES: How did you stay in touch with your family?

SIMPSON: A wonderful technology called Skype. I mentioned that it's nine and a half hours difference between Afghanistan and Dallas time, so every morning when I would get up, I'd hit the button on my computer because in my quarters I had all the computers and I'd catch my wife before she was going to bed, and we'd talk for a good twenty or thirty minutes just about what's going on with the house, any problems, that kind of issues, how're you doing and that kind of stuff. And then at night before I would go to bed, she would call me because she would be getting up to go to work and the same thing.

One day I was on Skype and I was talking to her and we were having a good conversation talking about things, and all of a sudden this loud explosion--I mean, it actually shook the building-- and my wife was, like, what was that? And 00:48:00I just tried to play it off. Oh, it was nothing, and then my aide--his quarters were adjacent to mine--he comes running in and he's frantic. "Sir, base camp's under attack! We've got to get to the bunker," and my wife heard that and so she starts freaking out.

But I'll say this, we have a yellow ribbon program in the National Guard where the family readiness groups have what they call a phone tree, so all of the spouses who have husbands that are deployed or wives that are deployed, they have this phone tree. So they call and check up on you and periodically see how you're doing and if you are having some concerns or issues with the separation, there are groups you can go and kind of sit down and talk about what's bothering you and it kind of helps when you have other people that are going through the 00:49:00same thing you're going through that you could talk to. My wife, you know, being the general's wife, a lot of the spouses were looking up to her for guidance and so she really didn't--she couldn't let herself--kind of the same thing as I was is you just cannot let your hair down and let people think that you are vulnerable, which put her in a position where she had a lot of stress.

So thankfully, my brother and my sister were able to help her out, and she has an extended family of uncles and aunts that are local. There are nine in her mother's family. And so they were always stopping by the house and checking on her to see how she was doing. And she never had to worry about the bills or anything because it was automatically taken care of, so the only thing she had to do was just find something to keep herself occupied, and she found some hobbies and went out with girlfriends and shopping was just the hobby she found, 00:50:00and I hate that (laughs) because she almost bankrupted me. But that's another story.

GONZALES: Did your family help out with the war effort at all?

SIMPSON: Well, not really, not with the war effort other than just supporting the soldiers and attending the family readiness groups. I know my brother--he was a retired police officer--he made some financial donations, stuff like that. Not like they did in World War I and II.

GONZALES: Were you awarded any medals or citations, and if so how did you get these?

SIMPSON: Yes. I was awarded the Bronze Star. I was awarded a Combat Action Badge, which is pretty neat because Secretary of Defense Gates was on his farewell tour and was touring Afghanistan, and he came to Sharana, which was the 00:51:00base camp where I was at. And he pinned my Combat Action Badge on me. He also pinned twelve of my soldiers with Bronze Stars, and we had a couple that had Bronze Stars with Valor, and I also have the Defense Meritorious Service and the Meritorious Service and a whole laundry list of other awards. The Bronze Star is the one that means the most to me.

GONZALES: So when did you return back to the States from Afghanistan?

SIMPSON: We deployed to Afghanistan in July of 2010 and returned in July of 2011. The exact date was July 11. We flew out of Fort McCoy, Wisconsin. That's where we MOB'd out of, but when we came back, we flew into Fort Hood, and we did our 00:52:00demobilization at Fort Hood.

Basically, you go through the medical facilities and the doctors. They prod you and poke and check you and the mental health folks are asking you all kinds of questions, especially in my case, since I had so many soldiers that were killed and that I had to do all of that stuff, they were particularly interested to make sure I didn't have any PTSD type stuff and that I was going to be okay.

And I think I went back to work too soon. I was literally--our plane landed. I was on the phone with my boss. He had called me because I had sent him emails telling him that we would be coming home. And the military's got a great program. They pull you out of theater, you go through Kuwait or you go to some other area. We went to Kurdistan and we were in Kurdistan probably three days 00:53:00before we actually took a flight back. So that's three days where you can just decompress. It's a relatively safe area. You don't have to have a weapon, you're not looking around at a swivel. They've got bars and party atmosphere or you can just stay and sleep all day if you want. And so it gave us an opportunity to relax and kind of decompress and kind of get back into the mode of I'm-not-in-a- combat-zone. And I think that helped.

And then when we got into the States, we flew into Bangor, Maine and the little old ladies there--I mean, some great, great patriots, just met us as we deplaned, and they were going to fuel the plane, and they had coffee and doughnuts for us and giving us hugs and just had a great, great, great 00:54:00reception. And they do this free of charge. I mean, they do it because they really enjoy supporting the soldiers. And then we got back on the plane and flew into Fort Hood and of course, Fort Hood had the band out there, and everybody standing there from Texas Military Forces Leadership and shake your hand after you get off the plane, and it was a great event.

GONZALES: You say you wished you had taken some extra time before you went back to work. What is your current assignment and how did you make that transition?

SIMPSON: Well, I have retired from UPS. I spent thirty-three years working for UPS, and as I mentioned earlier, I was working UPS and in the military simultaneously managing two demanding careers. A lot of people want to know how to do that. But I got an opportunity--my current assignment is I'm commander of 00:55:0071st Troop Command for Texas Army National Guard. And back in November, a couple of general officer announcements came out for the National Guard Bureau, and I applied for one. And two weeks ago I was notified that I was selected for that job. It is the Special Assistant to the Director of the Army National Guard. I will work directly for Lt.Gen. Ingram, a three-star general, and be his assistant, and I'm really looking forward to that job because that's where everything happens. The Pentagon is right down the street and he meets with four-stars a couple of days a week and three-stars a couple of days a week, and they have all these committees and then you also have the Congressional delegation, so that's where everything is happening. And I'm really looking forward to that. I start that job on April 23, and I'm looking forward to it.

GONZALES: So how many more years do you think you'll serve?

SIMPSON: I'm going to stay in the military until they say, Les, you got to go. My original plan, as I said, was to have two retirements, and I've already qualified for my military retirement. I'm getting my UPS retirement now. I took it--see, at UPS when you turn fifty-five, you can retire and start drawing your pay, and it's not considered an early retirement because there's not too many UPS drivers that can jump in and out of package cars after you turn fifty-five. (laughs) So I elected to go ahead and retire from UPS and use that income--I use that income to pay off all my bills and then I'm going to do this assignment here and hopefully get my second star and then I'll retire from the military and 00:57:00then I won't have to worry about working. Then I'll figure out what I'm going to do the rest of my life. (laughs)

GONZALES: Do you feel that your time at UTA adequately prepared you for active duty?

SIMPSON: Absolutely! Absolutely! I think, you know, the time I spent in the ROTC program was well worth it. And when I was here at UTA, I was well-versed in the Sam Houston Rifles. I came here specifically because of the Jodies. I had a goal of becoming a Jodie. I commanded the Sam Houston Rifles for two solid years. All those trophies you see over there in College Hall--and I've got a photo. I'm standing there with my First Sergeant and my XO and we've got trophies probably from that wall to that wall (gestures) with all of those that we won that year, and that was '79-'80, and then '80-'81. And so those things I learned that I was 00:58:00able to put into effect at UPS and in the military, I learned through ROTC and through UTA.

The only regret I have is that I wish my GPA could've been a little higher. (laughs) I've done two commissioning ceremonies here at UTA as a general officer, and Dean Wright, she was here when I was here. And I always make this joke about: I think I have the record for being the student most times on academic probation of anybody. And I think that's the only regret I have, but like I said, everything has worked out. I mean, my GPA was not for lack of intellect. It was because I was managing so many balls and trying to work and do everything else that I just didn't put the right emphasis where it needed to be. 00:59:00But I think it made me who I am today. Because now that I've got the education--because I have a master's, I've got a bachelor's-- and I understand the military culture and what it takes to succeed and the discipline, I can apply myself wherever I need to.

GONZALES: Do you still keep in touch with any of your fellow students from that time here at UTA?

SIMPSON: Yes. One of the other things that I do on a volunteer basis, I am the Vice President for Membership for the UTA Cadet Core Alumni Council. Once a year we have a program where--at Homecoming usually--that we bring former students back that were members of the cadet core, and we have a Hall of Honor inductee ceremony, which I am one of the inductees in the Hall of Honor. But we bring them back, and then a couple of the old Jodies will pick up the rifles and go 01:00:00out and march in front of the younger students so they can see what it's like, and some of us still got it. So we do that, and occasionally we'll get together, like, I guess about three weeks ago we got together and went fishing and just kind of sit around and talk about old times and just reminisce.

GONZALES: Do you have any advice or suggestions for current UTA cadets?

SIMPSON: Yes. Today is very competitive. Get your GPA as high as you can get it because, unfortunately, since it's so competitive, if you don't have a high GPA, you are not going to be successful in getting where you want to go. So there's time for partying after you get out of school. While you're here, make the best of it. And I don't know what a semester hour costs now. I'm pretty sure it's 01:01:00higher than it was when I was here. So you want to get the highest return on your investment as you can, and my advice to you is do what you've got to do to get that GPA as high as you can get it because it will follow you.

GONZALES: Is there anything you would like to contribute to the interview that I didn't ask you?

SIMPSON: Well, I will say this. I talked a little bit about the military culture, and you know, in order to be successful on the battlefield, you've got to do a lot of things. And dealing with chaos is one of the most important things that you learn how to deal with. But unfortunately, in today's society, a lot of our senior executives that are in our Senate and in our House of Representatives have never served in the military. And so they don't really understand that military culture. So if you have an opportunity to learn about 01:02:00the military--I'm not saying that you have to join the military--but if you know anybody that's in the military, please sit down and talk with them about their experiences.

That's why I really appreciate what the College of Liberal Arts is doing for this Veterans' Voices because it will help others understand what it means to be in the military, and in this country when you think about it, less than 10 percent of our citizens serve or have ever served in the military. And out of that, very few have served in combat. Only 4.5 percent out of that 10 percent have served in combat. That's a lot of experiences.

I had an opportunity about a week ago to go up to Gainesville. Gainesville is the Medal of Honor Host City. They had fifteen Medal of Honor winners there. Fourteen of them were from the Vietnam Era and there was one from Afghanistan. I 01:03:00had dinner--or lunch with each of them and got to sit down and talk with them about their experiences, and you read their citations on the things that they did and I was just at awe--at awe--and I was really glad that I got a chance to meet with them and sit down and talk with them. Just unbelievable the things that they did for their country. And getting to know a veteran and understanding more about the military and what veterans go through will help because a lot of our veterans, unfortunately, are the ones that need help right now, whether it be housing or employment.

And that's what I love about UPS. UPS hired over seventy-five hundred veterans last year, and they do great work to hire vets. Of course, working for UPS was like being in the Army, so you kind of fit in. But, yeah, get to know a veteran.

GONZALES: Well, this concludes our interview. I want to thank you, Gen. Simpson, for participating in this project. You were extremely informative and very helpful. And thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you again for your service and your contribution to the Maverick Veterans' Voices Project.

SIMPSON: Well, thank you for doing this project, and I really appreciate you giving me an opportunity to tell you about my experiences. And I love UTA. (both laugh)