Maverick Veterans’ Voices: Interview with R. Zack Prince

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Interviewee: Mr. R. Zack Prince

Interviewer: Melissa Gonzales

Date of Interview: April 29, 2013

Location of Interview: Arlington, Texas

Transcriber: Diane Saylors

Special Collections UTA Libraries

GONZALES: This is Melissa Gonzales. Today is Monday, April 29, 2013. I am interviewing Mr. Zack Prince for the first time. This interview is taking place at the University of Texas at Arlington Central Library located in Arlington, Texas. This interview is sponsored by the College of Liberal Arts and is part of the Maverick Veterans' Voices Project.

GONZALES: Mr. Prince, where are you from originally?

PRINCE: I'm from Fort Worth, not far.

GONZALES: So were you involved in ROTC while in high school?

PRINCE: Yes, I was.

GONZALES: Did your family influence you to participate?

PRINCE: No. Very few of my family members had any sort of military service before me, and so this was something I just decided I wanted to do. Actually, in high school, I was at one of the football stadiums and the UTA Jodies marched, and that sold me not only on the team but also coming here for a couple of years.

GONZALES: So I was just about to ask: why did you choose to attend Arlington State College?

PRINCE: I came mainly for the ROTC program and thought I would go to UT- Austin. In fact, I had been accepted when they made it a four-year school. And so I stayed because they told me that if I worked hard, I'd get to be in the first graduating class and also be one of the first ones to get a commission in a four-year school at Arlington that year.

GONZALES: And that was part of the Distinguished Military Graduates Program, correct?

PRINCE: Well, that was separate. That was for people who had good grades and had excelled in Military Science, and I don't know--they probably had some other criteria, but I did get on the Distinguished Military Graduate list. That allows you to be a regular officer if you choose.

GONZALES: So what was your major?

PRINCE: My major started off in Liberal Arts and I got interested in Business Administration and so I switched after my freshman year. I graduated and my bachelors is in Business Administration.

GONZALES: What were your duties while on the Sam Houston Rifle Drill Team?

PRINCE: Well, of course, I started off in the line as a marcher, then went to squad leader, and then I was--my sophomore year, which it was still a junior college, I made the Executive Officer, so I got to march at the rear and helped 00:03:00keep people in line and everything--not that they needed it. And then my junior and senior year I was guidon, carried the flag, the little flag that you twirled and everything. So I enjoyed that. That was fun.

GONZALES: What kind of training did that involve?

PRINCE: The guidon?

GONZALES: Um-hmm.

PRINCE: Well, the previous guy was still there, and he showed me how to twirl. This was a short staff flag that had a wood staff and a small flag, but they had cut the staff off. When I first came they used a long flag, and it seemed like they were always sticking it in the ground accidentally or bumping somebody with it, so they cut it off where it was about four feet or three and a half feet or something like that. And I actually learned to twirl it, you know. (laughs) I didn't do it very long.

GONZALES: Were there any professors or instructors that significantly influenced you?

PRINCE: Well, you know, I saw that on the questionnaire, and the people that really impressed were the military science cadre, the full-time cadre here. And they made a great impression on me. Col. Kirk Brock was the PMS. He was the Colonel at the time that they were overrun in Korea, and he was taken prisoner, and I think he's one of the highest, if not the highest-ranked officers to actually be a prisoner of war. And he was crippled because of it, but he was not--he stayed in the service and he was near retirement at that time. But he was really a great leader.

And then Capt. Latham, Willard Latham, and of course he went on to be a Major General, now retired, and he was our Jodie sponsor and so I got a big dose of 00:05:00him for four years, and he also taught several classes, of course, that I took. And I considered him to be a real inspiration.

And then SGM Lewis was here. He had been taken back to a Sergeant Major, he was a Major--I mean, he was an officer, and they did a cutback on officers after the Korean War was over, and so he had to step back or get out. And he didn't want to get out, and so he went back to being a Sergeant Major and he took it with great aplomb. I've known some people that could not do that, but he did and he was a great leader too.

GONZALES: What was your course load like? Were you full- or part-time?

PRINCE: I was full-time, very full-time.

GONZALES: And were you living on campus?

PRINCE: Not until the last year. I lived here in my last year, and I was by then 00:06:00commander or counselor or something at the old Davis Hall, which is now Brazos Hall, still the same building--I guess it's still there.

GONZALES: Um-hmm.

PRINCE: Yeah.

GONZALES: Did you work while you were in college?

PRINCE: I worked every summer for a construction company, and that helped me stay in shape for the drill team. They worked as hard as the drill team.

GONZALES: What was a day in the lifelike on the drill team then?

PRINCE: Well, we practiced three or four times a week except when there was nothing coming up, but most of the time there was some sort of performance on the horizon, and so we practiced three or four times a week. And then every day, every weekday if one was within the next few weeks because at that time they claimed they had never lost a competition, and so anything that we were going to 00:07:00be judged on, we were always ready for it. So it was an hour and a half drill every day, and it was right after--it was along about four o'clock or something like this. But if you were on the drill team, you had to make those unless you were ill.

GONZALES: Did you do a lot of traveling with the drill team?

PRINCE: Um-hmm. Sure did.

GONZALES: Where did y'all go and what kind of competitions did you participate in?

PRINCE: Well, I missed the Junior Rose Bowl trip to California the first time in '57 because I had dropped off because of my course load, and I joined back up in the spring and never did miss another semester, so I really regretted that.

But we went all over Texas, and I think we went to Shreveport one time. Also, they had gone the year before I came out here to the inaugural parade, which I thought was great in Washington I think, I believe that was. But we went to 00:08:00Austin and San Antonio parade and down to Del Rio. They had tremendous drill team competitions back in those days. And they would have high school competition and then they would have a college or university competition.

GONZALES: So in addition to ROTC, what other campus activities did you engage in?

PRINCE: Well, I was a student government officer my sophomore year, and I think I was elected a favorite and that's about it. Military Science, if you really got involved, it kept you busy. Plus, I was taking fifteen to eighteen hours a semester because I wanted to get out in four years, and when I changed my major I was behind.

GONZALES: So you said that as a Distinguished Military Graduate, you received the benefit of a regular commission.

PRINCE: Um-hmm.

GONZALES: What did you do after graduating?

PRINCE: Well, they didn't have a place in our branch. I was AG. I wanted to be infantry, but they wouldn't take me at that time because of my eyesight in a combat branch. Now, they would take reserve officers, but they wouldn't take regular officers that were going to make a career out of it. And so I signed up for the Adjutant General Corps, and there were no positions available when I graduated.

So they said if I'd wait six months, they put me on active duty. So I started graduate school at TCU and started working and working part-time at Montgomery Ward's. Well, six months came and went and they didn't call me, so I called the command and they said, "Oh, we're sorry, Lieutenant, but we don't have a place for you yet, but we'll get you on active duty." Well, they got me on one year to 00:10:00the day that I graduated afterward, so I went on active duty and graduated at the end of May in 1961, and went on active duty the end of May--well, actually, June 1, 1962.

GONZALES: So in that year that you had before you went into active duty, did you do anything to keep in shape?

PRINCE: Yeah. Yeah, I was actually attached to a reserve unit, but it was an inactive reserve. They didn't meet. But I was on--for pay purposes, I was attached to the Army and that's so funny. I'll tell you that story in a little bit. Anyway, I stayed in shape because I thought, When I get on active duty, I'm going to be faced with all these guys that are coming right out of college, and they're going to be--a lot of them are in sports and a lot of them are going to be really in good shape if they've been on drill teams or whatever, so I 00:11:00worked--I continued to work out.

GONZALES: So what was the transition like from going to TCU and working at Montgomery Ward's and then going straight into active duty? What was that transition like?

PRINCE: Well, Montgomery Ward's kept me real busy, and of course, the graduate courses in business kept me busy, so I was used to being very busy full-time, and actually it was sort of a relief because I was attached to the Adjutant General Corps and went to Fort Benjamin Harrison, Indiana for my training. They had the Adjutant General Corps and the Finance Corps there, and it's a very pleasant post.

And my wife and I got on post, which was just amazing. A 2nd Lieutenant coming on active duty and I got on post, and it was a two-story apartment, and we 00:12:00couldn't believe it. But we got there two days early and they put us in a BOQ quarters, and then they said, Would you like to be on post? And my jaw dropped and I said, "Do you have me mixed up with a higher ranking officer or somebody else because I've been told there was no chance." They said, "No, we have a vacancy and you're the first one here for your class and you can have it." I said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah," you know. And they put us on and that was super because everybody else was living in rooming houses. They had those kinds of things back then, boarding houses or they were living in motels, cheap motels, where you could get--sign up for a week, you know, thirty-five dollars or something. And they were still going broke, and so it was great, you know.

GONZALES: So you mentioned Indianapolis. Is there anywhere else you went for military training after?

PRINCE: No, that was the only training I had until my last year on active duty, and then they sent me to Fort McClellan, Alabama for a combat training course for staff officers. And that was a joke. That was so funny because most of these guys that were there, they were people had just come on duty and they never had any military training, but they had been direct commissioned or something. And so not only had I been on duty for a year and a half, but I had had a lot of training before that, infantry training, and so, yeah, it was funny watching them running around and not know what to do.

GONZALES: So do you recall those first days? Was there anything memorable that happened in that first time getting used to that?

PRINCE: The school was pretty laid back. We went to class, eight hours a day and we sat there and it was so tiring, boring. But, you know, I did fine and went to 00:14:00El Paso and they sent most of my class to Germany, and I wanted to go but my wife was six months pregnant, and so they wouldn't--I guess she was five months--but anyway, they wouldn't send us. And so, as they said, Where would you like to go? And I said, "Well, I don't know. I haven't been to any of the posts," and they said, How about Fort Bliss, El Paso? And I said, "Good grief. Sending me back to Texas?" (laughs) "I've lived in Texas all my life." They said, Well, they have an opening there in the Adjutant General Corps, and they need you, and I said, "Okay." So anyway, I spent--I guess it was twenty-one months there at Fort Bliss, and it was fine.

GONZALES: Describe your role in the U.S. Army Defense Command in the Adjutant General section. What does that involve?

PRINCE: Well, the Adjutant General Corps is the administrative branch of the Army. They handle all of the paperwork for everything, I guess, except maybe 00:15:00court-martials. And you serve--there are all kinds of different sections.

I served in special orders, and that's where you cut orders for officers that are going to special duty posts, and they have to be perfect. And I was in charge of that for a while. I was in charge of the MOS Testing Service, which is Military Occupational Specialty, and that's where you test everyone in their field, and they have to make a certain grade to get pro-pay and all of this. And then I was in charge of records, which I got a full blast when I came here to UTA, but actually, they had a good record system there. I was in charge of the post post office, (laughs) which I knew nothing, absolutely nothing, about. I 00:16:00had a sergeant that kept me out of trouble.

And my favorite thing of all things was the Army Emergency Relief. They put two officers in every post in charge of Army Emergency Relief. And that's where if a soldier has an emergency or a problem and he needs to go or he has to send money home, he can go to this after he's been there--and they'll interview him and get home reports and they find out, and then they'll give him the money that he has to have up to a certain limit. And that was so different because you never knew from day-to-day what you were going to run into.

The company commanders would call and say, I'm sending someone to you and he really needs this money. And so we would interview them and there were just two lieutenants that were doing it. There was a 1st Lieutenant and myself, and we were in the same building, and sometimes we'd both hear a case that was kind of 00:17:00iffy. But that was the best duty I thought because I felt like I was really helping some people that needed it and had no funds whatsoever. No funds whatsoever.

GONZALES: What other assignments did you have?

PRINCE: Well, when you're attached to a headquarters of a post, you always get officer of the day sooner or later, and about every four months, I got officer of the day. And that was challenging because after five o'clock he and his sergeant that was on duty answered the telephone for the headquarters, not the individual units but the headquarters. And so anything that happened to a soldier off-post came through the officer of the day.

One guy that had been there a good while, he said, "When you draw officer of the day, just pray that you don't have anybody killed that belongs to this post." 00:18:00And the second time I drew it, we had a guy that was in an accident on the way up to White Sands Missile Base, a car accident, and he was near death, and they brought him back to El Paso instead of taking him to White Sands. (laughs) I wished they had, but they brought him back, but he made it. The sergeant and I were just holding ourselves together hoping he didn't pass away because that requires a full week of funeral duty. The officer of the day is the one that continues on with the family and all that. And I didn't want to experience that.

GONZALES: So did you ever see any combat at all?

PRINCE: No, I did not. And it was pretty much peacetime.

GONZALES: And when you deployed--or did you get to go overseas?

PRINCE: I never got out of El Paso, Texas.

GONZALES: Oh, no.

PRINCE: I got to Juarez. We fought the battle of Juarez. (laughs)

GONZALES: So what are some of your memorable experiences?

PRINCE: Well, most of them were purely routine. One thing that was funny was the officer--we were in the same office. We had a pretty good-sized office, and our desks faced each other. We were at one end and came through the middle door. He was a 1st Lieutenant and I was a 2nd Lieutenant for part of it. And he was a half-blood--no, three-quarter-blood Navajo Indian. And his name was Prince E. Pearson and he went by Elvin, but in the service, they required him to go by Prince because that was his first name.

Well, my name was Ronald Z. Prince and I went by Zack, but I had to go by Ronald Z. Prince. So everybody would come in and they'd say, I want to see Prince. And 00:20:00we'd say--we got the biggest kick out telling them, Well, which Lt. Prince do you want to see? You mean there's more than one? And so we'd introduce ourselves, you know, we got a big joke out of that.

But the most memorable thing--and this is sad (laughs) but it was with Army Emergency Relief. Most of them were dire emergencies, but we had one that was so crazy--and I've never forgotten it. A company commander called me and said: I have a dependant wife here. She's been here for a month and she's driving her husband crazy. She's from Tennessee. She has a five-year-old baby, and she's living in a little apartment off-campus and she doesn't have any money. I said, "Well, how's she existing?" And he'd already told me that she gets no money from home. "And she's driving her husband crazy because he's in the barracks, but he 00:21:00knows what she's doing." I said, "What is she doing?" He said, "She's earning a living at night selling herself." I said, "Really?" and he said: Yeah, she takes men back to her apartment and earns money to get by on. You got to get her out of here. You've got to get her back home or it's going to ruin this boy's career. He's going to go AWOL. He's just crazy about it. And so I said, "Okay. Send her in." And he said, "Now, don't give her any money because she's crazy."

And so she came in and she was the prettiest thing you could imagine. She has this five-month-old baby in her arms, a boy, a little boy. And she was blonde-headed and the boy was blonde-headed, and the lieutenant and I looked at each other and said, "Man", You know, "we got to get her back home."

So we told her when to meet us. We said, Now, you meet us at the railroad 00:22:00station in downtown El Paso. Here's twenty bucks, and you get food and everything to take with you on the train, and you meet us at the train at a certain time in the evening. And we knew when the train was coming in. We'd already prepared this, and we said, We'll give you tickets then. She said, "I want my tickets now." We said, No, we can't give you your tickets now. We've got to meet you there. We've got to put you on the train.

So the other lieutenant and I, Prince E. Pearson, and I dressed up in our business suits because it was after working hours. So we show up at--the time came and went and the train was ready to leave and there was actually smoke blowing out of the stuff, and we were just scared to death that she was going to miss this thing.

Well, she came in about fifteen minutes late, running into the train station and out on the ramp, baby in arms, and her bags and everything. So we told her, Get 00:23:00on. Get on. They're ready to leave. They've already made the last call. So we put her on and saw where she was sitting. And we told her, You go right in here and you sit down and you stay there until the train leaves. So she did, she was sitting out there by the window and she could see us and we could see her.

Well, in comes a couple of guys in suits with a cab driver, and they were El Paso detectives. And the cab driver was saying, "That woman took my--has been using my cab all day--been riding around in my cab." So anyway, we said, Well, she's on the train. There's she sitting right there. And the train was puffing and puffing, but it wasn't leaving yet. And the officers said, Well, you've got to get her off, and she's got to pay. And we'd been given strict orders to send her back to Tennessee. And we got her on the train and we're going to send her. Said, Well, we don't know who you are. So I said, "Well, here's my ID card." He said, "Well, why aren't you in uniform?" I said, "Well, we're off-duty 00:24:00officially." He said, "Well, I don't know who you are, both of you." So anyway, we went and so Prince--the other Prince--said, "Call the Officer of the Day, and let him verify who we are," because we had signed out through him. And so he did and they talked to him and he said, "Okay, but who's going to pay this cabbie?" So Prince and I paid the cabbie because we knew we could get it back, and we even gave him a tip because we knew we could get it back. And he was happy. He was ready to press charges and have her thrown in jail.

And so anyway, we're standing there, we're just sweating blood, and the train starts off, and she starts waving to us. And holding the baby up at the window, and so we're like four nuts, we're standing there waving bye like we were family. I've thought about that so many times. We're grinning and she's 00:25:00grinning, and we're waving bye to this woman going back to Tennessee. (laughs) And I have thought about that ever since. I think that's the first time I've ever told it to anybody but my family.

GONZALES: So your wife and child traveled with you wherever you went?

PRINCE: Well, we didn't go--yes. The boy wasn't born at the time we went to training, and then we got to El Paso before the boy was born. He was born at the military hospital there in El Paso, and then that's as far as we went except we made a couple of quick trips back to Fort Worth.

GONZALES: Did you form any close relationships with people?

PRINCE: I did with a couple of officers, but except for Prince Pearson, I never kept up with anyone. I kept up with him for about ten years. He went back to Arizona and got into business there. And then I kept up with one captain that 00:26:00was in charge of my section, the section I was running and kept up with him for about twenty years in all.

GONZALES: So you were later promoted to Captain in the U.S. Army Reserves. What did that entail?

PRINCE: Well, when I was in the Reserves, I was in a Military Intelligence unit in Dallas, and it was the only paid slot, so it was not part of the AG Corps, but they took me in there, and I got to be an instructor and all and that was fun. And we'd go one night--we'd go two nights a month and then one weekend a month and do training.

GONZALES: So as an instructor what were you teaching?

PRINCE: Teaching Military Intelligence, which I learned during the week before I taught it.

GONZALES: (laughs) Oh, my goodness. So are you able to elaborate on that more or no?

PRINCE: Yeah, it was all types of whatever the Military Intelligence do. 00:27:00Actually, it's not like secret work. What they do is they check people, anybody that they think might be trying to pass information off post and all of that, but they also check the mail of anyone that's a little bit suspicious or if they're working in a classified position. And the unit I was actually attached to was a military postal unit, and people would be assigned to military postal units and they would check mail and packages and everything if these people were working in a classified unit.

GONZALES: So tell me about the transition from military to civilian life. When did you start working at UTA?

PRINCE: I got off active duty May 31, 1964. I signed out at midnight. My wife and I were sitting in the car outside the headquarters, and when the watch said 00:28:00midnight, I went in and signed out, said goodbye to the guy sitting there, and we drove back to Fort Worth that night, all night and part of the next day because we didn't have the interstate. It took about twelve, thirteen hours.

And when I saw Fort Worth out there this side of Weatherford, you know, you can see downtown Fort Worth, its buildings. And I think that was one of the happiest moments--not that I didn't enjoy the military duty. I did. I think that was one of the happiest moments. And the next Monday, I had my job here at UTA and I came to work here as Assistant Registrar. So I didn't miss but a weekend. (laughs)

GONZALES: Was there a difference in how you lived on the base and how you lived once you started working at UTA? Did you have to transition at all?

PRINCE: Yeah, but it wasn't drastic because I had had jobs in civilian life before. And this was during peacetime, and we, of course, didn't--we wore a uniform every day and you had to be fit for inspection because you had enlisted men under you, so you had to be an example for that. And you had certain rules and we lived in-- actually, got a house on post, and so you had to make sure your lawn was well-kept, and they'd come by and inspect those things. And there were certain rules and a whole lot of paperwork for everyone, but other than that because we were not in wartime and not in a combat zone, it wasn't strenuous really.

GONZALES: So did you go back to college?

PRINCE: I did. I went back to TCU, worked on my master's in business for a couple of semesters while I was working here, and decided I really wasn't interested. I 00:30:00knew then I was going to stay with UTA if I could. But I needed a master's. So I couldn't figure out what I wanted and I kept asking people: what kind of degree do I need? They said it doesn't matter. You need a master's. And so finally I decided to get one in history, and I did it here at UTA and ten years later, in 1971, I finished my master's, MA in history here. I never used it except I did keep up with it. I never used it until I got to DBU and they asked me to be an adjunct because they needed someone that would teach in the afternoons, so you had to have a master's in a field that you were going to teach. And so I learned to teach history real quick.

GONZALES: Was your post-graduate work supported by the GI Bill?

PRINCE: Yes.

GONZALES: So how did the military experience influence your career?

PRINCE: It was the most defining thing for me. I was a very shy young man, and I started a lot of things as a teenager, several different music instruments, several different sports, all kinds of activities, and never got good at anything. I'd always said too much trouble, and my dad was on my case about that because he was a hard, hard worker. And I never could get really interested in spending a lot of time on anything even sports. But when I hooked into Military Science, it changed it all because I was determined to succeed, and I knew I needed to succeed.

Also, I knew I needed to do better in college than I had done in high school in 00:32:00my grades. And the more I worked in the Military Science Department, the most confidence I got in myself, and I started losing shyness, and I started feeling like, well, I can do that. And these other guys were excelling. They were learning to drill, they were learning to shoot their weapons, fire the weapons, and I can do that. I just have to pay attention and do it and not quit. And it changed my whole direction. And then the drill team had a great deal to do with that because, as I said earlier, we drilled constantly on a regular basis. And we were good. I was finally a member of a winning unit, and that made the difference. That turned me around.

Also, what I've told a lot of people is that I don't know of anyplace else 00:33:00except the service as a young officer that you can have as much responsibility at twenty-two and twenty-three years of age as you do especially in combat. Or not even in combat necessarily but in a combat unit when you're a platoon leader, for instance, and that's usually the job that you get. You're a platoon leader and you have soldiers under you at all times not just when you're in the office. And you have to--you're their dad. They may be older than you. In fact, the sergeants usually are, but you're the one that they have to come to, and you better be ready.

The same thing in the offices. We would have soldiers that were working for us come in and say, you know, I need to go home and I don't have any money. Of course, we had charge of the Army Emergency Relief, but you have that sort of thing, and you have to decide: can we help this guy? And you have to decide when 00:34:00to say no and when to say yes. But when I got out of the service, I felt like I could handle any type of management job that they put me in as long as I was willing to learn whatever business it was. It made me learn leadership.

GONZALES: So tell me a little bit more about your professional activities and your professional involvement.

PRINCE: I really enjoyed the admissions work, and that's where I started off. Even though I was Assistant Registrar, I was put in charge. I was in charge directly of the admissions, and then we had a registrar in Director of Admissions over us. And so I worked in admissions for the first seven years. So then they made me Associate Director of Admissions. They just promoted me in place, and I continued to do that. So I had a staff under me, and we admitted 00:35:00everybody to the University. At that time we didn't have--we were even admitting graduate students at first, and then later they took over the graduate part of it.

Then I became Registrar and Director of Admissions in 1971--'70, and from then on I had both sections, both of these large sections plus the registration. It was a full-time extra job, just like it is today. And, you know, y'all work here, you know how busy people are. I was on a lot of committees along with that and everything. It was really a good career. I stayed here thirty-eight years.

GONZALES: When did you retire?

PRINCE: Two thousand two.

GONZALES: So what is your role as a member of the Corps of Cadets Advisory Committee?

PRINCE: We are called on just to try to raise money sometimes, to think up things to get the cadets to--so that we can know them and involve the alumni cadets, the ones that have graduated from here or at least gone through ROTC, all kinds of things like that. And then we have several meetings a year. The big thing now is for years has been the Hall of Honor, Military Science Hall of Honor. And we help plan that with the cadre here.

GONZALES: Would you like to see the Jodies return?

PRINCE: Oh, yeah. But I don't know if it ever will because the Army doesn't do that kind of marching anymore. And those were show units. Now, they still have the show units, but they're usually smaller units than what the Jodies are. But someone asked me, "Why don't they have drill teams anymore that march for competitions?" I said, "Well because the Army doesn't use them anymore for anything."

GONZALES: So there have been many changes to the campus since it was Arlington State College and you've seen many of them while you've been working here. How do you feel about the changes and what other changes on campus would you like to see happen?

PRINCE: Well, I've been very impressed in the last ten years--eleven years now since I retired from here. I just think it's amazing what Dr. Witt and Dr. Spaniolo and now the new man--I can't remember his name--but I'm sure that he's going to continue this. [Vistasp Karbhari] The building has just been phenomenal. And one thing I really like is the fact that they have raised up housing units because this was our biggest problem. We could only house about 10 percent. All the time that I was here until the last five or six years we could 00:38:00only house about 10 percent of our people in campus housing. And now I don't know how many--what percentage.

GONZALES: I don't know either.

PRINCE: But it's high--higher, and I think that has been great. Now the other thing I would like to see UT-Arlington receive--and I know it's a struggle and we struggled with it for twenty years while I was here, and that's get to be a Tier 1 university, a Research Tier 1 University. Now, I think there's only four or five in the state. Is that right?

GONZALES: Yes.

PRINCE: But I would like to see us crack that nut and I'd like to see us get that because my understanding is it will make a fantastic difference in the amount of grants and loans, fellowships that you receive, and the number of people that are professors that have specialty fields that would come here to teach and not only teach but do research, that's the main thing. And it would draw lots of research money. And so I would like to see that happen.

GONZALES: What do you think it would take for the University to reach Tier 1?

PRINCE: I don't know. You've got to excel and your administration has to show that it can raise the money on its own before. My understanding is we have a very, very high-ranked faculty now, and I think it's just a--in my personal opinion, it's too restrictive. The Texas A&M's and the UTs--I mean, the UT-Austin's that do not want to get too many of those Tier 1 campuses in the state. But with our growth and all now, it seems to me that they can't withhold it forever. I'd like to see us get it before UNT gets it. (Both laugh)

GONZALES: Would you like to see football make a comeback here?

PRINCE: Yeah, I really would. You know, I had season tickets over there and the new stadium was only in operation five years before they discontinued it, and I loved it and enjoyed it so much. But there is so much competition in this area because of professional sports. Everybody's heart--everybody that has kids, their heart is with the high schools. And a regional university--and UTA will always be a regional university no matter what standing it gets--of course, it's not a regional in the sense that we have so many international students. I think it's--what--about 20 percent now?

GONZALES: Um-hmm.

PRINCE: But I don't know that we could ever draw the crowd to pay for it. And I know that Dr. Nedderman had to discontinue it because it was costing more money 00:41:00then the whole rest of the athletic program put together.

GONZALES: So what advice would you give current cadets at UTA?

PRINCE: Let me tell you one thing about the football stadium if you don't mind. I was on--they appointed me to the committee--actually the task force--and they said, You're going to make the decision. Your task force is going to make--I wasn't the Chair--your task force is going to make a decision to build a football stadium or a basketball arena. And we decided to build a football stadium.

And now, thirty years later, is it--yes, thirty years later, we have this beautiful basketball arena, and I just say, "Why in the world were we so shortsighted then?" And of course, we had no idea. We had no idea that the UT system was going to discontinue our football, or we would've gone that way, of 00:42:00course. But they were playing on the Texas stage then, and people were always joking about, well, which person in the audience caught the basketball this time (Gonzales laughs) because there was nothing up that--well, they finally got where they raised the screen a net. But I don't know what in the world--but I will say to my credit I voted for the basketball arena on the committee anyway. What was your other question?

GONZALES: What advice would you give current cadets at UTA?

PRINCE: Well, I know that our military training now is much more difficult, and I would tell them to get in shape as quickly as you can and put your heart into it. The Army is a wonderful career. I've wondered several times if I shouldn't have kept that RA commission and several of my friends stayed in for careers and did 00:43:00quite well. And it's a wonderful career even if--but you do have to serve--have to be ready to serve in combat zones. But I would tell them that if nothing else, even if you do what I did, it provides a person an opportunity for leadership and management that you won't get for another five years if you stayed in the civilian world.

GONZALES: Is there anything you would like to contribute to the interview that I didn't address?

PRINCE: No, I thought you had some really good questions. I enjoyed them.

GONZALES: Well, I want to thank you, Mr. Prince, for participating in our Project. You've been very informative and very helpful, and I just want to thank you again for your service and for your contribution to the Maverick Veterans' Voices Project.

PRINCE: Okay. Thank you. I enjoyed it.