Maverick Veterans’ Voices: Interview with Rex Latham

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Interviewee: Mr. Rex Latham

Interviewer: Melissa Gonzales

Date of Interview: February 24, 2013

Location of Interview: Arlington, Texas

Transcriber: Diane Saylors

Special Collections UT Arlington Libraries

GONZALES: This is Melissa Gonzales. Today is February 24, 2013, and I am interviewing Mr. Rex Latham for the first time. This interview is taking place at the University of Texas at Arlington Central Library in Arlington, Texas. This interview is sponsored by the College of Liberal Arts and is part of the Maverick Veterans' Voices Project.

GONZALES: So we'll get right to it. Where are you from originally?

LATHAM: I was born in East Texas and after age eleven I grew up in Arlington, Texas, about ten minutes from UTA.

GONZALES: Did you participate in the ROTC in high school?

LATHAM: No, it was not offered.

GONZALES: Okay. So why did you choose to attend Arlington State College?

LATHAM: Primarily two reasons: one, I lived ten minutes from the University, and secondly, I could afford the tuition, and I basically paid my own way through college.

GONZALES: What was your major?

LATHAM: I had a double major, history, and government or political science.

GONZALES: What were your first impressions of the school?

LATHAM: Well, growing up in Arlington, I had ridden by the school several times, and actually while I was in high school my brother was on the faculty here. So I had visited several times and so I was generally familiar with it. And it was just--it was no outstanding impression--it was just, this is the college that I'm going to, and it's a nice place. But Arlington at that time particularly was 00:02:00a commuter college, so the big thing for many of us was: Where can I find a parking space?

GONZALES: (laughs) So did you live in a dormitory or did you live at home?

LATHAM: I lived at home. I lived at home all four years although I had good friends that lived in the few dorms that were available. And so I spent a lot of time in the dorm, particularly Davis. What was then Davis Dorm and is now Brazos Hall.

GONZALES: So you were in the Corps of Cadets here at Arlington from the beginning?

LATHAM: I joined it as a freshman in the fall of 1961.

GONZALES: So in addition to ROTC, what other campus activities did you engage in?

LATHAM: I was in Circle K, I was in student government, I was in the Corps of Cadets at that time and the first two years were basically almost mandatory for 00:03:00the incoming freshman boys, and so as I went through I was in the ROTC NCO or Non-Commissioned Officers Club, and I was in the Officer's Club my senior year. I'm trying to think. But I guess the two major--and then I was in a--oh, my goodness, what was it called? For one or two semesters I was in the honorary academic society, and I can't remember what it was called.

GONZALES: What was your course load like?

LATHAM: Normally, I would take fifteen hours a semester because I always went to summer school and took two courses in summer school. There were two semesters in summer school, so I would take a course one semester and then take another course the second semester because I liked to keep my hours down to--to be very 00:04:00honest--where I felt I could keep my grades high with fifteen hours but also have time for extracurricular activities, such as the Sam Houston Rifles, student government, and the Circle K, which was a service club sponsored by the Kiwanis.

GONZALES: Tell me about the Sam Houston Rifles Club.

LATHAM: Well, that was not a club. It was a drill team.

GONZALES: Drill team.

LATHAM: But quite frankly, it had a very dramatic impact on me and a lasting impact because in high school I had been rather shy, and the Sam Houston Rifles--there's a couple of things happened there. My brother had been a member of the Sam Houston Rifles, and he had been the faculty sponsor of the Sam 00:05:00Houston Rifles when he was there.

And so when I came in, which was a year after he left, there were a lot of members of the Sam Houston Rifles that remembered him. And there was a certain amount of, I guess it would be called, hazing that went on then. But as you came in as a recruit, you learned the drills but you also were at the beck and call of the upperclassmen, members that were already on it, and they were trying to teach you discipline and mental exercises. And coming in as the younger brother of a physical fitness nut, let's just say the things that he had them do they remembered as part of the training and young Latham learned to deal with that. So I learned to persevere very quickly.

But Sam Houston Rifles taught me discipline. They taught me--and they brought 00:06:00out the leadership goals. I mean, I learned how to be a leader by watching older members, particularly a gentleman named Lee B. Wilson, who just became an absolutely fantastic soldier. I also--a gentleman that you will interview again by the name of Jerry B. Houston was an upperclassman, and I watched how he was a first executive officer in the Sam Houston Rifles and later the commander of the Sam Houston Rifles. And I watched how he led. And I took examples from them, so it kept me in physical condition.

I learned that I could do things that I didn't know that I could do, that I could perform beyond what I expected that I could do. And I kept those lessons with me through life, and I also learned that if I was going to demand something 00:07:00of someone, then I had better be sure that I could do it myself. To lead by example rather than just telling someone to do things, and those were lessons that the Rifles impacted.

And quite frankly, it was a great deal of comradeship on it because, again, we had all gone through the same training. It was like after I joined the Army, it was very similar to the elite military units that I'd been on. You had gone through the same hardships, the same drills, the same things, and that builds a team spirit, and you learn that it's not about you. It's about the team because on a drill team particularly if you tried to be an individual star, you'd mess up the rest of the team. You had to be able to synchronize your actions and everything else and your goals with that of the team. And you had to depend on 00:08:00your fellow team members. And I've taken those lessons with me throughout all my careers, and I say that I've had three: the military, the CIA, and then civilian employment afterwards.

GONZALES: Did you work while you attended Arlington State College?

LATHAM: Yes. I worked every summer. I was in the first group hired at Six Flags Over Texas. It opened the year I graduated, and I was able for the first three years to fund my education through working at Six Flags during the summers and the spring. And in fact, one of the most enjoyable things I ever did was become a member of the Six Flags Confederate Drill Team, which was a lot of fun and we did Sam Houston--they were all members of the Sam Houston Rifles--and we did some of our same drills there and entertained the folks. But it was a wonderful 00:09:00job. We drilled ten minutes out of every half an hour, and the other twenty minutes we had our photographs taken with all the children, basically.

GONZALES: So there are probably a lot of photos out there. (Both laugh) You have no idea where they are.

LATHAM: I have no idea where they are. (Gonzales laughs) And then my senior year, because I had been to military ROTC camp, I'd been unable to work at Six Flags, so I drove a student bus to Fort Worth part-time in the afternoons, and that's where I laughingly say I learned diplomacy.

GONZALES: I read that after you graduated, you were commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the U.S. Army and started active duty in 1965?

LATHAM: That is correct.

GONZALES: Did you have to attend boot camp, or did your preparation at Arlington State College take that place?

LATHAM: As an ROTC graduate, you don't go to boot camp, but you go to the Infantry Officers Basic Course, which was held at Fort Benning, Georgia. And I 00:10:00did go through that, but I had a sort of an unusual career start. At that time the Army would let you go from graduation immediately to your unit, and so I left UTA and went directly to Fort Bragg, North Carolina to join the Third Battalion of the 325th Airborne Infantry, part of the 82nd Airborne. And when I got to Fort Bragg, my unit was deployed to the Dominican Republic. There had been a crisis, a revolution down there, and President Johnson had sent in the 82nd Airborne to deal with the situation.

So I reported as a Second Lieutenant and there was really no one left in my--very few people in my unit, just a small housekeeping group, and it was very 00:11:00boring. I was going to have to stay there until my Infantry Officers Basic Class and Airborne Class started in late August. Two captains came back from the Dominican Republic from my unit. I met them. They asked me if I'd like to go to the Dominican Republic, and I said, "Absolutely!" They went back, talked to the battalion commander, and I got orders to go to the Dominican Republic.

So I went. I was assigned a rifle platoon, and as a young second lieutenant with no airborne training and no infantry basic training, I commanded a rifle platoon in the Dominican Republic from roughly late June until I think it was sometime in August. At that time they discovered that I was not supposed to be down there. They sent me back, and I had, I think, two weeks before I went to Infantry Basic School. So I had been in the Dominican Republic I think about forty-five days before--something like that.

GONZALES: Had you ever been overseas before?

LATHAM: Never.

GONZALES: What did you think of it?

LATHAM: Well, it was a tropical island, and I liked it. I like hot weather, it was great, and I had very good soldiers, and I had an outstanding platoon sergeant, who took me under his wing and really taught me a lot. But it was what I had joined the Army for. And I thoroughly enjoyed it and when I finished my courses, I came back and went back to the Dominican Republic until my unit finally rotated out.

GONZALES: Okay. And what happened after it was rotated out?

LATHAM: I rotated out, came back to Fort Bragg. I took over a weapons platoon, which was a heavier platoon, and really enjoyed that. I, again, had a very good sergeant. The enlisted men in the Airborne at that time--and still are--all 00:13:00volunteers, so it was an elite unit. And I did that until the battalion commander decided that he needed what was called a motor officer. The lieutenant that was the motor officer got sent to Vietnam and he needed a replacement, so I took that job, one that I did not particularly like, and I still don't like, but, again, I had a very good--in that case--a warrant officer, who really ran the unit. But I didn't like the job, so I did the same thing my predecessor did to get out of it, I heard they were looking for people to go to Vietnam. So.

GONZALES: And when was that, about what time?

LATHAM: That would be in the summer of 1966, so it'd been a year later, roughly, and I went to Vietnam in October 1966.

GONZALES: And for how long were you there?

LATHAM: I was there for a year. I was an assistant advisor to a Vietnamese infantry battalion. The 3rd Battalion, 16th Regiment, 9th Infantry Division, and we were assigned in the Mekong Delta, which was the sole province of the Army of the Republic of Vietnam. And we were the division's reaction force if you will. We were their-- another term of the strategic reserve. Anytime the enemy struck, we were the ones that were sent in to find, fix, and kill them. So we had no permanent base. And we ranged all through the division's area of operation. I used to laugh and say, "I probably have laundry in every Chinese or Vietnamese laundries through the division delta," which really 00:15:00comprised about four provinces.

GONZALES: Since you were moving around so much, were you able to stay in touch with your family, and how often were you able to touch base?

LATHAM: The communications with the family were all by what you would call snail mail now. (Gonzales laughs) And the way we would do that is we would--the answer is I kept in touch by writing letters and getting letters. But it might be, you know, several weeks or so, but eventually we would go to division headquarters, which was always permanently in one location--and one of us--we had teams of three to four Americans with three hundred Vietnamese.

So there were just very few of us, but anyway, one of us would go back for orders, directions, and other--he would pick up the mail and bring it out, and 00:16:00we'd read it and then if we wanted mail to go out, we would give it to him or to me, depending on whoever it was, and we'd take all the letters and drop them off at division.

GONZALES: Okay. Were you married at the time or before you left or that came after?

LATHAM: I was single.

GONZALES: Okay. That's sounds rather stressful, all the moving around, and then your job assignment on top of that. Were you able to take leave, or was there any way to manage the stress?

LATHAM: We got a week or two weeks of R and R for the entire tour. That was it, and you were given your choice of several countries to go to. If you were married--and most of the married people did it-- they would fly to Hawaii and meet their wives there. The bachelors, we could go to Thailand, Taiwan, Japan. And those were the ones I remember. I 00:17:00ended up going to Thailand. I'd never been there, it sounded exotic. Somebody told me it was a beautiful place, a nice place to visit, so I went to Thailand, which turned out to be very, very useful later on in an assignment.

But managing the stress, I mean, it was just--it's kind of hard to describe, but I joined the Army--the Vietnam, this may sound somewhat bad, I guess, but the assignments in the Dominican Republic and the assignments in Vietnam were things that I signed up for in the Army. It was adventuresome, it was dangerous, and there were certain aspects of being assigned to the Vietnamese Army that were different from being with an American force because you were--let me put--I went 00:18:00through three American captains and I went through one--four American sergeants. I was one of the few advisors, at least in my area that stayed with the same unit the entire tour. The rest were either killed or, as we liked to say--I regret that we did--got their ticket punched after six months and they would find a desk job somewhere. And I felt that was not the reason I was there. These Vietnamese soldiers were in many cases underpaid, poorly led, but they were fighting for their freedom.

GONZALES: When were you assigned to Thailand? Was it right after this tour ended?

LATHAM: No, I actually--after my Vietnamese tour ended, I wanted to be closer to home, so I went to Fort Polk, Louisiana, and I commanded a training company there and did that for a year, and then went to Thailand--was a headquarters company there on the post and unit where we trained the Thai Army that was going to Vietnam to assist in the U.N. cause. So we trained the Thais that went over to fight alongside the Vietnamese. And if you've ever heard of the Bridge on the River Kwai or seen the movie?

GONZALES: Yes.

LATHAM: That's where my post was.

GONZALES: Oh, wow!

LATHAM: We were up on the Thai-Burma border.

GONZALES: It seems like it was a long--I can't even imagine what it was like 00:20:00being over there at that time, but are there any memorable experiences that you look upon favorably or anything that you look back on that you find--I don't want to say humorous--but anything unusual that kind of sticks with you?

LATHAM: Well, there were some--it's sort of like: How much time do you have? (Both laugh) I mean, there were a lot of things that are very memorable. I celebrate if you will--commemorate would be a better term--my own memorial day because of a particular battle I was in. It happened to be the biggest battle that I was in. And it was actually Easter Sunday.

You know, for some reason, I do not know why, but the older I get, the more emotional I get. And I used to be able to talk about this with no emotion at 00:21:00all, and I don't like to show emotion, so, excuse me. But I lost a good friend and a captain on Easter Sunday, March 26, 1967, so for myself and several other folks, that's our memorial day. But it was the biggest battle in the Mekong Delta up until the Tet Offensive, and I was in the middle of it.

But there were humorous things happened. I guess, to me, they were humorous looking back. One time we went--we were preparing to deploy on an operation, and we visited a provincial headquarters because we were going to stage out of there. And you have to understand that as advisors and particularly us, we had no home. Our area where we stayed when we weren't on operation was a rice paddy 00:22:00near Division Headquarters, and we slept on cots when we were there. The rest of the time we slept in Vietnamese hammocks. It was nice to be short and light because I could put my hammock actually on banana trees or banana stalks and sleep in them. If you were heavy, you couldn't do that. And in the Delta, you didn't sleep on the ground because of the wet and all of that.

But anyway, we pulled into the provincial headquarters, and whenever we went to a facility like that, we took turns. And one of the advisors going to take a shower. That was a big thing. So it was my turn. So I went in--we got there after dark--I went in to take a shower because they had one. And in the middle of the shower, the Viet Cong decided to mortar the place. And so dressed with a towel and a carbine, (laughs) I got out of the shower and went to the wall 00:23:00because we--and so I'm standing there in flip flops, a towel, and a carbine, and I'm thinking, You know what? This is ridiculous! But fortunately, they didn't attack, they just shelled us and let us go.

There was another thing that was, to me, comical. Again, I mentioned, when we would pull in to a division or one of these places, we would go in. When we were at division headquarters, one of us would go in and sleep in one of the barracks that belonged to the folks that were permanently assigned there. But you--as we termed hot bunked--you know, if someone is gone, you got their bunk. You could sleep in their bunk. If they were all filled, then you went back to your unit. So we pulled in to Division Headquarters and, again, it was my turn. I went in and saw the supply sergeant, whoever, and he said, oh, yes, so-and-so--Captain 00:24:00so-and-so or Lieutenant so-and-so is gone, and it was a top bunk. And so I went in, lay down, and, you know, just completely zonked out.

The next morning I got up and went into their mess hall to eat breakfast before rejoining my battalion, and everybody was talking about a mortar attack that happened that night. And I basically said, "Well, what are you guys talking about?" And they said, "What do you mean?" I said, "I didn't hear a mortar attack," and they said, "You were here last night?" I said, "Yeah." They said, "My God, you slept through the attack." And I laughed and said, "Well, that's what happens when you get used to these kinds of things." And I went on my way.

GONZALES: Were you awarded any medals or citations, and if so how did you get these?

LATHAM: I mentioned the Easter Sunday Battle, and I was awarded the Silver Star. 00:25:00The Captain who was killed was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross. But I got it for as they term gallantry in action, but it was one of those things where you make a split-second decision that you're not so sure it's the right one at the time, and I remember thinking, I'm either going to get court-marshaled or maybe get a medal, but I got to do this. And it just so happened that they gave me a medal.

And actually, I was very fortunate because this battle has been written up in three books, and two of them deal with my role. The third one does not because it was written by the Vietnamese general commanding the division and he didn't 00:26:00care about that, and a Look magazine article and then several other articles.

There were six--actually five comrades and I that went back in 2007, and we visited the battlefield on the fortieth anniversary to the day. Interesting thing to me was that there were three infantry advisors and three--two helicopter pilots, and a door gunner. And the infantry advisors, we all knew each other, but we hadn't seen each other in forty years. The helicopter pilots we really didn't know. These were units that supported us. I mean, they flew us all over in the battle or all over the Delta, but basically, all we saw of them were the back of their helmets. But we met in San Francisco, and one of them had 00:27:00put together this visit, and went out there. We had--because of that day, we have become fast friends and maintain contact not only with them but with others that we've since established contact who all shared that experience.

But it was a day that I saw incredible bravery and cowardice, and that's how I got my medal because the--I don't know if you have time for this--but basically a Viet Cong main force battalion that had been brought up and reinforced attacked one of our sister units, and then as they normally do, about three o'clock, four o'clock in the morning, they broke off the attack to try and disappear, and we were the force that were sent in to--we were going to be 00:28:00heli-lifted in to find, fix them, and either kill them or hold them until other additional units would come.

But everything that could go wrong that day did. In my case, well, what happened was the Captain--we couldn't all go in the same--I'm trying to use civilian terms--we couldn't go all in the same group of helicopters. There were limited numbers. So the first group were lifted in and the captain and the Vietnamese Battalion commander were there, and this was a guy--the Vietnamese Captain--Vietnamese Battalion commander was a guy that I did not like. He'd already gotten me wounded once by stopping an attack in the middle and when he did, Pow! I got hit by a mortar round. But anyway, when they flew--when you 00:29:00prepare a landing zone, you prepare the area around it with artillery fire.

But unfortunately, the helicopter commander decided that he was going to try to get the unit closer, so he took them into a different landing zone. And when he landed, it happened to be right in front of the VC in their dug-in positions, and they were armed with the Chinese 12.7s, which were equivalent to a fifty caliber machine gun, and they just shot the heck out of the helicopters and the troops and shot one helicopter right on the ground. A medevac went in to try to get that crew. They shot it down. The helicopter commander decided he was going to be brave and before they could get more support up, he went in and he got shot down.

So we had three helicopter crews on the ground, and we had the first half of my battalion, and then they decided that we would be sent in and they landed us in with a wood line between us, and when we got up the front, my radio didn't work. 00:30:00So I couldn't communicate with anybody, and everything had to go through the Vietnamese XO, and I kept saying, "We need to conduct a flanking operation," which was the smart military thing to do, and he said, "I can't do it. The Vietnamese--the Battalion commander won't let me." And I said, "Well, ask him where the senior advisor is," and the answer came back, "He doesn't know." So I said, "Okay. You guys stay here, and I will go out there and persuade the battalion commander to let us flank or find the senior advisor, find a radio, or get something going." So I did, I guess what you could say is, a John Wayne activity, and it was the rainy season still, and so the mud was up to my knees.

Anyway, the good Lord was looking after me because I made it from the wood line all the way out to where all the troops were, and I found out that the Captain 00:31:00was dead, the Sergeant that was with him was in shock, all the crews were dispersed and wounded. So I got everybody together and got the battalion commander and he refused to do what I wanted to do. And they organized a rescue spur-of-the-moment, one that sent three helicopters in, and that's when I said when I saw bravery. I mean, it was incredible because there was one pilot that flew a smoke ship right in front of the VC to provide smoke. This is all written up in these books, but it's just incredible.

But anyway, we got the wounded Americans on the helicopters, and I looked on the last helicopter and my battalion commander was on that helicopter flying out. I can't tell you--I can't say in polite company what I was thinking. Turned out to be the best thing because when he left, nobody took over, so I did. And as a young American lieutenant, and I had been with the unit long enough where people 00:32:00listened. So long story short, with all the support we finally at the end of the day assaulted the wood line. We had--resources came in and we finally gained the wood line, but it was after dark.

Then as we were--but they credited me with rescuing the crews and taking over, and at the end of the day, we were looking for wounded and the bodies of the Captain and others. At this point, one of my Vietnamese soldiers came up and basically said, "Lieutenant, there's somebody out there and we think it's an American and we're not going close to him." (laughs) So I went out and as I got close, I heard, in essence, a round being chambered, and I said, "Wait a minute. I'm an American!" and in essence thinking, I hope you're an American. And it was one of the downed pilots that had been there all day. Really severely injured. 00:33:00So we got him, and I was totally out of medical supplies and morphine, and we had a gunship. In those days it was called C-130 (AC-47) Spooky mounted a Gatling gun in it, a wonderful weapon.

But God works in mysterious ways. There was a doctor that had taken a joyride on this thing. So I told him--we were communicating and I told him about the problem, and he says, "Okay. You can hold your position." I said, "Absolutely! We're good." So they flew back to their base, got morphine, flew back, and dropped it by flairs. And so we doctored my people up, we doctored the American pilot up, and then the corps commander that's flying on a helicopter and 00:34:00overheard us, he dropped his helicopter. He put the American pilot on and flew back and got him in. And that's how I spent Easter Sunday.

But I have met the pilot since and we have become good friends. But we joke because he's about 6 foot something, and he weighs a lot more now than he did then, and I tease him because I say, "Jon [Myhre], it's a good thing you were slim because we would never have gotten you on that helicopter with what you weigh now."

GONZALES: Oh, my goodness. When did your service end?

LATHAM: 1969 in August after my tour in Thailand.

GONZALES: Okay. Did you come straight back to Arlington, or did you go somewhere else?

LATHAM: No. Arlington at that time didn't have the advanced degrees that it has now. So I had decided I wanted to get out of the military for a variety of 00:35:00reasons. I enjoyed what I did, but there were several reasons. One, which I kind of wanted a somewhat stable life where I could meet a woman and get married. (laughs) But anyway. I laugh when I say that. But I enrolled in the University of Texas thinking I might get a Ph.D. And I did--or I enrolled in the University of Texas in Government. I decided to specialize in Southeast Asia since I'd already had two years there, I liked it, I really enjoyed the people and all of that. And I thought I would probably teach.

The atmosphere even at what some would consider a conservative University of Texas was not very welcoming to Vietnam veterans, and I quickly deduced that I 00:36:00wasn't going to get very far in the academic world as a Vietnam veteran. But I had some wonderful instructors there, particularly the gentleman who supervised my graduate thesis, and one of them said, "I know someone that you might be interested in talking to with your background." And I said, "Okay, fine. I need a job. What is it?" He said, "He'll explain it to you."

So I met a gentleman, very nice gentleman, in a motel room in Austin, Texas, and he said in essence, "How would you like to work for the CIA?" And I said, "Wow! I think I would." So he said, "Good! Here's the requirements," and he gave me the requirements. He said, "Now, you have to go through a lot of training, and you may or may not washout or you might washout or you may make it." I said, "Well, let's give it a shot and see what." So I went to Washington and 00:37:00twenty-seven years later I retired.

GONZALES: Do you think the transition from military to civilian life was easier because you went into the CIA, or would it have more difficult if you had become an academic?

LATHAM: I think it would have become more difficult as an academic, and it was easier into the CIA or even into a business probably than as an academic. For me, the military and the CIA were really good, and I used my military experience and background in the CIA in some of the assignments. And the leadership lessons that I learned at UTA and the military I used every day.

GONZALES: Are you at liberty to discuss your job assignments with the CIA?

LATHAM: In general.

GONZALES: Okay.

LATHAM: I was in Operations--if you want that information.

GONZALES: Yes. Yes.

LATHAM: I was an operations officer. Basically, I recruited and ran spies, and then, later on, I ran programs that recruited and ran spies, and I was extremely fortunate. I mean, there's a joke in the CIA, which is true, is that when you're in the field you can't believe they pay you. When you're assigned to headquarters in Washington, there is no amount of money they can pay you that makes it worthwhile because of the Washington bureaucracy and stuff. But I joke that I've been in one war and two revolutions, and one of those revolutions was when I was in the CIA and that was a wonderful experience. It was truly interesting, and it was a revolution that was a good revolution. I mean, it was a revolt against a dictator, and that was a great time, great experience.

I got to work on some of the most pressing intelligence problems of my era: Russia, China, the Middle East, all kinds of stuff, and I was privileged to work with a group of very dedicated people. And it was--especially some of the assignments were absolutely mentally stimulating. I worked--I mean, I came out as a history/government major and background, but--though working with these people, and some of them were my sources and the best in their field. But I mean, I learned economics, science, the oil industry, computers, information 00:40:00technology, agriculture. It was just--and I got to go places that an East Texas farm boy--I would have never dreamed that I'd been able to go. I spent a total of nine years in Asia, and I've been to almost every Asian country that you can think of. I've been to the Middle East. I've been to Africa. I've been to Central--Eastern Europe, what we now call Central Europe.

And as one of my CIA classmates--you go through training there like you do other places, and so you have classes. One of my classmates and I met after about ten years, and we were both back at headquarters. Said, "How you doing?" Said, "I'm doing well. How about you?" And we were chatting, and he said, "You 00:41:00know, Rex, there's the banquet circuit," meaning Europe, Rome, Italy, and he said, "and there's the armpit circuit," yeah, the Third World countries and stuff. And he said, "You know which circuit we're on?" and I had to--and I said, "Yeah, but tell you what, we have a lot more fun." And we did. I used to joke that you hear of spies having to wear tuxedoes and everything. Most of the time I was in a brush jacket or the local native dress, and it was a lot more comfortable and it was a lot more fun. I joked if it was a big dirty Asian city with intermittent power, that was where I was going to be assigned, or as my son said on one assignment when I came home and proudly announced where we were going, his response was, "Not another Third World country." However, I will tell 00:42:00you that as we drew near the end of that tour, both my children came up and said, "Can you extend?" (laughs)

GONZALES: Well, it was nice you were able to take your family with you.

LATHAM: I did. Yes, my family went with me most--almost all the time; however, I had assignments where I would leave my family in one country and fly to other countries on a regular basis. So my wife was a wonderful woman, but she had to deal with me being gone a lot, and she didn't know--she knew generally where I would be, but she didn't know what I was doing or in many cases, even if I was operating under my own name or identity.

On one assignment that was two weeks out of every month, so she put up with a lot. And most of my assignments also, I give high credit to my wife because we 00:43:00would move into a country or city, and I'd take off, and so she unpacked and packed and, you know, all of that sort of stuff, a remarkable woman.

GONZALES: So you retired from the CIA in 1998?

LATHAM: Yes.

GONZALES: And did you retire completely, or you went into the civilian sector afterward, right?

LATHAM: I went into the civilian sector.

GONZALES: What did you end up--what did you do then after you left?

LATHAM: Well, I worked about four years for Electronic Data Systems, headquartered in the Dallas area. And I was a paid employee but basically, I consulted them on how to tailor their products and other stuff for the intelligence community. And part of that was explaining what the intelligence community needed and also how to present it, and in every case they--they were 00:44:00engineers, so the first thing they wanted to tell you was what a wonderful engineering product they had, and et cetera, et cetera, and I basically had to say, Look, as a consumer I'm not interested in that. What I want to know is: Here's my mission, here's my objective, here's what I need to do. How does your product help me reach that goal or achieve that mission? I said, "Once you explain that to me, then you can tell me all the technical details." So I was a very--a well-paid translator. (Both laugh)

And then I went to a small company that was thirty people, which was a lot more fun, and I got to travel all over the world consulting with businesses and governments on the continuity of operations and due diligence. You know, who are you--if you're dealing with a company in another country or people, what do you 00:45:00really know about them? Are they legitimate? Are they good people or bad people? And so that's what my company did.

GONZALES: That's impressive. It seems like your time with the Sam Houston Rifles influenced--the drill team influenced your life and your career. Do you engage in any alumni reunions with them or chapters or anything like that?

LATHAM: The answer is yes. We have had an alumni association. Actually, it predates the Cadet Corps Alumni, but in recent years because of the change in the military and, if you will, the decline of drill teams, it's not so--it's not active anymore in that sense. We really--those members--those of us who were in the Sam Houston Rifles have, if you will, moved our loyalty to the Cadet Corps 00:46:00in our efforts, so, yes, we still take pride in being part of the Sam Houston Rifles. They're apparently reestablishing it here in the Cadet Corps this year and we're delighted with that, and we see--we visit again during the Hall of Honor and all of that. But it's more inclusive with the Cadet Corps.

GONZALES: You seem to have a lot of--there were some conflicting emotions in your time during the military from what I gathered. But with your military experience and your work with the CIA has that influenced your current views on today's military and its campaigns or--I'm just trying to figure out if that has--if the way it's changed--if your views have changed with the way the military has changed over the years.

LATHAM: No, I mean, I'm very proud and pleased with the military and what it's 00:47:00performed. And I wish to share I do not regret my service. I'm delighted. I determined that for a variety of reasons that I wanted to pursue another career. I went into the military expecting to make it a career. For a variety of personal reasons I decided to do something else that I thought was better suited, and I was very fortunate. In fact, going into the CIA, I think that fit my talents, strengths, and abilities better. I think I could have--actually based on my performance in the military, I think I could've done as well in the military, but I think I was better suited for the CIA. And I used the experience that I got in the military and the lessons that I learned in the military in the 00:48:00CIA, very much so.

So the military had a positive influence and I found it extremely useful. For example, in one instance I was dealing with a high-level official of another country when I was in the CIA, and I noticed that he had on a pair of American jump wings. We had not been able to do very much with this country, let's put it that way. And my job was to remedy that situation. So I looked and I said, "I see you have American jump wings. Did you go to jump school at Fort Benning?" And he proudly said, "Yes!" and I said, "Wow, I did too." He said, "Oh, when were you there?" And so we went back and forth, and suddenly at the end of that conversation, the atmosphere became much warmer, much friendly, and then he said, "Well, how long did you spend in the military?" And I told him and he said, "Were you in Vietnam?" and I listened. "What were you, infantry?" I said, 00:49:00"I was Airborne Infantry." He said, "Oh, yeah. So was I. So am I." And again, I found that extremely useful in a variety of countries and situations.

GONZALES: In 2000, you were recognized as a UT Arlington Distinguished Alumnus. Returning to campus for events, such as this weekend's Military Hall of Honors, what campus changes have you noticed that you wish had been around when you were a student here?

LATHAM: Well, the food. (Both laugh) You've got a lot more in variety of food. But you've got buildings and resources that, you know, we never dreamed of. So those are wonderful things, and I'm delighted that you have them. At the same time, I enjoyed UTA because it was smaller, and so, therefore, it was easier to 00:50:00know more people. So you weigh one with the other, but I mean, I'm very proud of UTA.

My son went to UTA and is a UTA graduate. And I'm proud of the international flavor in UTA, and actually, I tease my son-- because he grew up overseas--that one of the things he has said he would never attend UTA because his uncle, his cousins, his dad had gone there. He said, "I don't want any part of that." But when we visited UTA, we visited one of the buildings, and I can't remember which one, but he saw all the flags of the countries that had students here. And he thought, "Oh, wait a minute. This is truly an international student body. I fit in here." And so he did. He's never left the area.

GONZALES: Well, before we wrap up, is there anything you'd like to contribute to the interview that I didn't address?

LATHAM: Well, I enjoyed my time at UTA. And, again, the ROTC and the academics here were--they taught me discipline, how to budget my time, how to care for it, and the staff--I cannot talk about the current faculty because I don't know it, but UTA when I was here-- and particularly in the history and government department and the ROTC department, there was a Colonel McDowell and a Major Manifold, who were absolutely superb leaders. In fact, Colonel McDowell retired and came back on the faculty and taught Russian and established the Russian department.

In the History Department, there were teachers like E.C. Barksdale and C.D. 00:52:00Richards, who made every class--although very demanding--a lot of fun. They both could've been comedians if they hadn't been college professors.

Emory Estes in the English Department and he was here for years and years, was not only a wonderful teacher but a terrific individual. And all of those inspired me and inspired me to learn. I mean, I grew to have a great appreciation just for learning, and I appreciate what UTA meant in that regard.

GONZALES: Well, it has been a pleasure talking with you today. And I want to thank you, Mr. Latham, for taking the time to talk with us. You were very helpful and informative, and I thank you for your service and your contribution to this project.

LATHAM: Well, thank you. I wish you well with your project, and I appreciate what the project is doing for veterans. You'll have a lot more, I think, 00:53:00interesting interviewees than me, but I think you'll get some wonderful stories and experiences. And thank you. Nice meeting you.

GONZALES: Nice meeting you too.